Direct Introduction

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Pinus
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Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

Hi,
this seems to be 'the' place to learn more about Vajrayana in particular. So I am glad to have found it.

Though I am an engineer in the field of medical physics, I am not one of those guys that eagerly seeks to 'decide' between worldviews (as if it was a matter of decision). Rather, I feel that keeping the ways of looking neatly apart has helped me in learning perhaps one or two things from meditation traditions, such as Dzogchen. I cannot claim that, as a Westerner, I could ever hope to be more than a student. But a student I remain, with respect and appreciation for those that preserve and teach the ancient traditions.

In that sense, I am looking forward to the exchange of views and insights. :)
Pinus
(yes: 'Pinus', as the latin word for pine-tree)
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Pinus wrote:Hi,
this seems to be 'the' place to learn more about Vajrayana in particular. So I am glad to have found it.

Though I am an engineer in the field of medical physics, I am not one of those guys that eagerly seeks to 'decide' between worldviews (as if it was a matter of decision). Rather, I feel that keeping the ways of looking neatly apart has helped me in learning perhaps one or two things from meditation traditions, such as Dzogchen. I cannot claim that, as a Westerner, I could ever hope to be more than a student. But a student I remain, with respect and appreciation for those that preserve and teach the ancient traditions.

In that sense, I am looking forward to the exchange of views and insights. :)
Pinus
(yes: 'Pinus', as the latin word for pine-tree)

Tashi delek P,

Welcome aboard !

See you did learn or know already some things about Buddhist meditation.

- Which 2 things did you learn from Buddhist meditation Traditions like Dzogchen?
- Why do you think that Dzogchen is a meditation Tradition?
- Do you also take the study into practice ?

Mutsug Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Tashi delek P,

Welcome aboard !

See you did learn or know already some things about Buddhist meditation.

- Which 2 things did you learn from Buddhist meditation Traditions like Dzogchen?
- Why do you think that Dzogchen is a meditation Tradition?
- Do you also take the study into practice ?

Mutsug Marro
KY
Tujay-chay Kalden Yungdrung,

those are very mindful questions you ask.

- Which 2 things did you learn from Buddhist meditation Traditions like Dzogchen?
That tibetan Buddhism has much to offer in regards to 1. compassion and 2. understanding emptiness.

One of the first things that impressed me in Vajrayana Buddhism was the compassion-part, metta-meditation, the universal kindness etc. Although there seem to be some practical issues with it, that's a very beautiful aspect of Buddhism - and a much needed one in our torn world. That's a topic I believe many people - including non-buddhists - would appreciate clarification about.

The other thing is, that Buddhism has found a way to teach about 'emptiness beyond concepts'. That's quite an attainment! Anyone that spontaneously experiences emptiness or 'shunyata' is typically too perplexed to let it turn into 'direct understanding' (isn't that what you call 'rigpa' in Dzogchen?). But by it's conceptualization it becomes more difficult to elicit. On the other hand, the right knowledge may bring the direct experience about in the recipient if the conditions are good (isn't that what you call 'direct introduction' in Dzogchen?).


- Why do you think that Dzogchen is a meditation Tradition?
Because 'the fire is passed on from torch to torch' and there is much that is taught from the living light coming from emptiness, using a terminology and a set of methods that were cultivated for a very long time. Do you understand the word Dzogchen more as a generic name of a path, like yoga is a generic term (both of which happen to be about self-liberation, respectively the realization of our true nature or self)?


- Do you also take the study into practice ?
Yes, although there doesn't seem to be an essential difference between theory and practice. My experience is, that it's more like two sides of one coin. At least for me, since it were spontaneous experiences that lead me to study emptiness in the first place.


Any insights appreciated!

Danke sehr Kalden,
Pi
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DNS
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by DNS »

Welcome to Dharma Wheel!

:yinyang:
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Jim1
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Jim1 »

Hello Pinus, welcome!

With metta,
Jim
"He who walks in the eightfold noble path with unswerving determination is sure to reach Nirvana." Buddha
Malcolm
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Pinus wrote:
The other thing is, that Buddhism has found a way to teach about 'emptiness beyond concepts'. That's quite an attainment! Anyone that spontaneously experiences emptiness or 'shunyata' is typically too perplexed to let it turn into 'direct understanding' (isn't that what you call 'rigpa' in Dzogchen?).
No.

But by it's conceptualization it becomes more difficult to elicit. On the other hand, the right knowledge may bring the direct experience about in the recipient if the conditions are good (isn't that what you call 'direct introduction' in Dzogchen?).
No.

Do you understand the word Dzogchen more as a generic name of a path, like yoga is a generic term (both of which happen to be about self-liberation, respectively the realization of our true nature or self)?
No. Dzogchen is not a generic name, it is a specific term that refers both to one's state and a specific path to reach it. Yoga is very far away from the meaning of Dzogchen, and is a path of renunciation, not self-liberation.

- Do you also take the study into practice ?
Yes, although there doesn't seem to be an essential difference between theory and practice. My experience is, that it's more like two sides of one coin. At least for me, since it were spontaneous experiences that lead me to study emptiness in the first place.
Find a Dzogchen master.
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

Malcolm wrote:
Find a Dzogchen master.
Thanks for your recommendation. I'm not sure if I am at that point yet. But anyway, do you mind me asking who your Dzogchen master is?
Malcolm
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Pinus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Find a Dzogchen master.
Thanks for your recommendation. I'm not sure if I am at that point yet. But anyway, do you mind me asking who your Dzogchen master is?
Several, but principally Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and the late Kunzang Dechen Lingpa.
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

Thanks for sharing, Malcolm.

Both teachers have my respect and gratitude for bringing their teaching to the West. I read some of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's works a while ago, from his remarkably extensive bibliography. Too bad Kunzang Dechen Lingpa passed on already. Luckily Norbu is still around, isn't he? Norbu spoke quite freely about the teachings as far as I remember, which I found very refreshing, although learning from books is not really all too instructive - especially for a Dzogchen newb like me. Maybe I get a chance to meet him sometime.

Did you get a chance to receive a direct introduction from him? Or how does he work?
Malcolm
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Pinus wrote:Thanks for sharing, Malcolm.

Both teachers have my respect and gratitude for bringing their teaching to the West. I read some of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's works a while ago, from his remarkably extensive bibliography. Too bad Kunzang Dechen Lingpa passed on already. Luckily Norbu is still around, isn't he? Norbu spoke quite freely about the teachings as far as I remember, which I found very refreshing, although learning from books is not really all too instructive - especially for a Dzogchen newb like me. Maybe I get a chance to meet him sometime.

Did you get a chance to receive a direct introduction from him? Or how does he work?
Well, there are many web casts, free. He always gives transmission during these. Depending on your circumstances however, it is good to go see him in person and meet with many fellow students. Practicing with others in the beginning is important. So contacting your local gar is an important first step.
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

@Malcolm: thank you. What would we do without youtube?!
Malcolm
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Pinus wrote:@Malcolm: thank you. What would we do without youtube?!
Webcast must be attended live...
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

@Malcolm:
for technical reasons alone?
Malcolm
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Malcolm »

Pinus wrote:@Malcolm:
for technical reasons alone?
Because in order to receive direct introduction you must participate in the introduction with a live master, so you are both in that same state together. A recording is not a living being. It has no mind, therefore, you cannot share the state of the master.
Pinus
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Pinus »

OK, thanks.
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Ayu
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Re: Direct Introduction

Post by Ayu »

Since this is the forum for introductions, the further questions on Dzogchen are split to this new thread: http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p300379
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