On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

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monktastic
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:19 am

This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

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florin
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby florin » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:32 pm

After the recognition the work is not done.
Lots of people assume that once the recognition has been actualized the re-recognition and resting can take place at will whenever we want.
That is not true.
Why ? Because the very strong habit of the mind to search for experience and use focused attention is still there.
So in one word the mind still gets involved and muddles the waters but when we get everything right and very precise according to the instructions of our guru the re-recognition can take place without fail.
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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monktastic
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:05 pm

This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

TaTa
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby TaTa » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:39 am

Really great post's and quotes here. Just wanted to thank you all.

Andrew108
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:45 am

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:31 am

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

Andrew108
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Andrew108 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:28 pm

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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Astus
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Astus » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:38 pm

Andrew108 :good:
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



cataractmoon
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby cataractmoon » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:23 pm

Tulku Pema Rigtsal reminds me, “Such yogis and yoginis make no distinction between high and low views, nor do they pay heed to the speed of accomplishment on the path.”

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:52 pm

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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monktastic
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:11 pm

A few quick notes, as I have to dash:

* To anyone else who's confused and reading this thread: I don't recommend that anyone else follow the crazy path you can see I've been meandering along.

* I took the advice to contact Nalandabodhi (thanks for the reminder, Andrew!), and with some luck, will get to meet a teacher in the near future. For the time being I've opted not to follow their practice path.

* Largely thanks to this thread, my illusions of resting in the natural state have been dispelled.

* Through more reading (which I have been advised against), and Mahamudra-style investigations (admission: the questions haven't always come from Buddhism), my confidence has grown considerably. It's more clear than before that there really is nobody "in here" to get the natural state; it's not something to get; and just when am I hoping to "get" it, anyway, since it's always now? This has led to a lot of faith in Tilopa's Six Words, and it's clear that worrying makes no sense. Who's worried about what, exactly?

* My passion and compassion have only grown since the above realization, so no worries about falling into nihilism. And I have enough shamatha experience (including a multi-month retreat) to be very cautious about whether my mind is simply wandering off in oblivion. These, I feel, are adequate safeguards until I'm sufficiently relaxed and receptive to receive a pointing out instruction -- if indeed it is my good fortune to ever receive one (in person).

Thanks to everyone here, both for the concern and the guidance.
Last edited by monktastic on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

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kirtu
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby kirtu » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:51 pm

Hello everyone! I moderated the thread a little. Please do not get into food fights with each other, cast aspersions, etc. No ad hominems/personal attacks, we need to exercise right speech and keep DW a warm and inviting place.

Monktastic's original question may be answered and the thread may have run it's course.

Kirt


"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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monktastic
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:37 pm

This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

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Astus
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Astus » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 pm

"What is it like to do nothing? I mean, really do nothing, nothing at all — no recalling what has happened, no imagining what might happen, no reflecting on what is happening, no analyzing or explaining or controlling what you experience. Nothing!"
()
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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monktastic
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:48 am
Location: NYC

Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:48 pm

This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

Andrew108
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Andrew108 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:59 am

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

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monktastic
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby monktastic » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:10 am

I was fortunate enough to meet with a senior teacher from Nalandabodhi for a long time today. He laid my worries to rest. I know exactly what I need to do to continue. So thank you, multiple people, for reminding me to speak with a teacher -- and Andrew, in particular, for reminding me about NB. Also, I would not have been able to describe to him the details of my situation nearly as well a month ago when I started this thread, as I was able to today. So thank you all for bumping me in the right direction.

:thanks: :namaste:
This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

Simon E.
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby Simon E. » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:39 am

I think what you are doing is admirable Monktastic.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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kirtu
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Re: On the difficulty of recognizing the natural state

Postby kirtu » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:52 pm

It seems that the thread has naturally rested it's intention (as per monktastic), therefore I will lock the thread.

Kirt


"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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