Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

TaTa
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby TaTa » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:46 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
I think it is more useful and realistic to acknowledge that 'mind' is something that must always escape precise definition, on the basis that such things as definitions depend on mind, rather than vice versa. The instinctively naturalistic approach is always to try and locate phenomena in time and space, but it is the mind which provides that very framework. This is not only the province of Buddhism or paranormal research; philosophers such as Edmund Husserl have made the same point. But getting that point is very much a matter of a change in perspective - like a gestalt shift or something of that nature.


This is very interesting. Thank you. I will keep this in "mind" hehe.

Justmeagain
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Justmeagain » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:44 am

Matt J wrote:I don't know about Mahamudra but I am very familiar with the mind-brain issue. However, this is an illusory problem--- for to say the mind creates the brain or the brain creates the mind is to introduce the mind and brain as separate objects, the idea of causation, and many other limitations. I have found that if I am to look closely, I see no boundary wherein the mind is on one side and the brain on the other, or where the mind is here and the universe is there, or where the brain is here and the rest of the world is there.


:good:

steve_bakr
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby steve_bakr » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:59 pm

The mind is without location. However, it is quite normal to feel that you are looking out from behind your eyes. We, after, all, reside in a body, so to speak. I have had experiences when my mind was somewhere outside of my body. But you cannot function very well in the world that way--i.e. interact with others, drive, or even eat. When I practice, I have the sensation that my mind is in a large area spanning my head and chest, but I cannot locate it. I'd like to suggest that you continue to look for the precise location of your mind and find out there is none.

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monktastic
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby monktastic » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:40 am

Though perhaps finding even an imprecise location where your "identity" resides or is roughly located might not be it either... :thinking:
This undistracted state of ordinary mind
Is the meditation.
One will understand it in due course.

--Gampopa

White Lotus
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby White Lotus » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:37 pm

its a good day to take an umbrella.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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srivijaya
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby srivijaya » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:00 am

Calming the mind to settle in the essence of its own awareness requires no location.

"At the still point of destruction
At the centre of the fury"
Sting

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Kaccāni
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Kaccāni » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:01 pm

catlady2112 wrote:Whenever I try to do mahamudra meditations on exploring, observing and locating the mind, I always see my mind located inside my brain.


Ye Tara and the Medicine Buddha! You can see the inside of your brain?
Shush! I'm doing nose-picking practice!

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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:05 pm

One thing with this kind of meditation, it seems important to know the difference between non-conceptually experiencing a thing, and "thinking" a thing about the minds location. IME it's been very easy to confuse the two and only good teaching has helped me distinguish them.
May the eyes of living beings be gladdened by skies made splendid by clouds
that lightnings garland, while on earth below, the peacocks dance with joy as
showers of rain, falling gently, approach.

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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby White Lotus » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:25 pm

this is mind, this is enlightenment. this is that is it. :meditate:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Berry
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Berry » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:31 pm

One needs a teacher in order to practice Mahamudra. That and relaxing, rather that chasing after discursive thoughts and concepts.
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa

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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby SpinyNorman » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:56 am

steve_bakr wrote:The mind is without location. However, it is quite normal to feel that you are looking out from behind your eyes. We, after, all, reside in a body, so to speak. I have had experiences when my mind was somewhere outside of my body. But you cannot function very well in the world that way--i.e. interact with others, drive, or even eat. When I practice, I have the sensation that my mind is in a large area spanning my head and chest, but I cannot locate it. I'd like to suggest that you continue to look for the precise location of your mind and find out there is none.


I use to assume that my mind was in my head, I think because this is where most of the sense organs are located. These days I don't think of the mind having a location, it's more like where-ever consciousness extends.

PierreDeSuis
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby PierreDeSuis » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:05 am

Mind is certainly located in the body. Its certainly located in the brain. It is wrong to think that mind exists independently. But then there is no exact location of the mind in the brain or the body. Its rather like asking where is a wave. You can see the sea and the wave but there is no fixed location. Mind is like heat from a fire or a wave in water.

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Vasana
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Vasana » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:31 am

PierreDeSuis wrote:Mind is certainly located in the body. Its certainly located in the brain. It is wrong to think that mind exists independently. But then there is no exact location of the mind in the brain or the body. Its rather like asking where is a wave. You can see the sea and the wave but there is no fixed location. Mind is like heat from a fire or a wave in water.


The Jury is still out on neuro-anatomical theories of consciousness. If you are a certain you'll need certain evidence, something I'm not sure exists yet.

Did you hear of the man who is missing 90% of his brain yet still leading a normal life? If mind is found in the brain we can at least rule out 90% of the regular volume for now, which still brings up many issues for our previous assumptions.

http://www.sciencealert.com/a-man-who-lives-without-90-of-his-brain-is-challenging-our-understanding-of-consciousness
"If you think that buddhas and sentient beings are indivisible, you should honor and serve sentient beings to the same degree as you would the buddhas. Do you do that?" ~ Shri Singha

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Kaccāni
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Kaccāni » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:04 am

PierreDeSuis wrote:Mind is certainly located in the body. Its certainly located in the brain.


What makes you so certain? :-)

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Kc
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heart
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby heart » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:40 pm

PierreDeSuis wrote:Mind is certainly located in the body. Its certainly located in the brain. It is wrong to think that mind exists independently. But then there is no exact location of the mind in the brain or the body. Its rather like asking where is a wave. You can see the sea and the wave but there is no fixed location. Mind is like heat from a fire or a wave in water.


You are free to think whatever you want, however this idea is not Buddhism.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Justmeagain
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Justmeagain » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:10 pm

Andrew108 wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:Actually no. If we used a non-sentient device to measure and map the mountain then we would know that whilst it is true that our sentience is perceiving the representation 'mountain', the mountain itself is not appearing only because of our sentience / perception.
A non sentient device requires a sentient being to construct it and thus will only be able to map characteristics observable to the specific type of sentient being. A camera, for example, is a non sentient device that takes photos of characteristics that are discernible to human eyes, but not necessarily discernible to other beings. Unfortunately what you are proposing is impossible.


All we need to prove is that the mountain has an existence outside of sentience. So the fact that it can be measured by a non-sentient device and has a series of values (height, mass, dimension and so on) mean that it has an existence outside of sentience. Another example would be using a non-sentient device to measure phenomena that don't appear to the senses. I am not denying subjective experience. What I am saying is that it makes no sense to say that 'there is only the subjective since any objective condition is merely an imputed condition that doesn't exist from it's own side'.


Blimey, been trawling through this thread which is great BTW!

I need to respond to this though

A108, I think the point you may be missing here (and I apologise if its been addressed later in the thread) is that nobody would say the mountain doesn't exist. More that it doesn't exist in the way that it appears. The same can be said for the photograph of the mountain, it do exists....but not in the way it appears.

Both appear to exist inherently and as independent entities. They don't of course. So the mountain appears to our mind, (no argument there) but its mode of existence is deceptive.

Justmeagain
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Re: Mahamudra meditation problem: locating the mind

Postby Justmeagain » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:14 pm

PierreDeSuis wrote:Mind is certainly located in the body. Its certainly located in the brain. It is wrong to think that mind exists independently. But then there is no exact location of the mind in the brain or the body. Its rather like asking where is a wave. You can see the sea and the wave but there is no fixed location. Mind is like heat from a fire or a wave in water.


So mind is located in the body. But you don't know where.....thats convenient.


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