Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Discuss any health or dietary topics which lie outside mainstream Western medical thinking, from Ayurveda to Reiki.
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Thrasymachus
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Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thrasymachus » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:08 am


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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:31 pm

It's the worst. I - to contemporary or "modern" "medicine" as a racket. Same goes for contemporary science in general, as it is mostly—rather than being 'objective'/unbiased—controlled by the corporatocracy's/corporate-dictatorship's greed/money. If we could say that there's a such thing as evil, the FDA, Monsanto, big-pharma, etc. practically embody it.

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viniketa
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby viniketa » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:31 pm

. ~

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:01 pm

Yep, many feel just this way until they have been sick enough to need allopathic treatment, then you get to see it's redeeming values, all the sudden when your choices are to go with that medicine or die, not walk, face dialysis etc., and all alternative treatments have yielded no results, then the world is a much different place. Amusing to me that 9 times out of 10 it is those who are young enough to have never needed any kind of triage medicine who make this sort of tunnel-vision argument about healthcare.

I agree that allopathic medicine is limited in many ways of course, and lifestyle, nutrition, prevention in general etc. are paid far too little heed in it, but making an overall statement about it's "purpose" is lunacy, much less making grandiose, sweeping claims about any and all people involved in it. If there is any critique to be made here it's a critique of medical care under capitalism, not of the methods themselves.
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby justsit » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:41 pm


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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:46 pm

I'm not saying that there aren't any people in the contemporary healthcare industry doing their best to turn things around. I'm sure there are, and I commend them for that. I'm also glad for the people who have been treated by the contemporary healthcare industry because they had no other choice and actually somehow benefitted from contemporary healthcare.

Nonetheless, much of what Thrasymachus has posted here is true. There's no denying that the contemporary healthcare industry is a racket, because it is one; especially the big-pharma aspect of it. The Hippocratic Oath that these doctors supposedly take is pretty much out the window in most cases.

We don't need pills made out of synthetic-chemicals, vaccines, rampant corporatism, and processed, irradiated, GMO & pesticide contaminated food. What we need is natural healthy organically grown food, plenty of sun and exercise, Yoga (preferably not contemporary watered-down pop-hatha-yoga), healthy sleep-patterns, at least some form of Meditation, and traditional Ayurvedic/Tibetan Medicine, etc.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:51 pm

I'm all for all those things, but all the better if they exist with contemporary methods of saving the life of people who would otherwise be even more miserable or dead.

I'm not denying that there is some, even a great deal of truth to what he posted, only that it is being seen with tunnel-vision, there is no "big plan" behind modern medicine, it's the interplay of many different things, some of which were around long before contemporary capitalism created some of the predicaments you mention, such as dependency on endlessly recycled versions of often useless antidepressants.

Also, alternative medicine (speaking as a practitioner here, one who also sees a Naturopath as primary care) is also most definitely full of snake oil salesmen who are only after money, and the well-meaning but misguided who think they "just know" something works better than standard treatment. An unfortunate consequence of much of the "anti no matter what" attitude in much alternative medicine is that a huge number of practitioners and patients who refuse to adopt evidence-based practices in the first place, which makes any argument they have about the mainstream medical establishment difficult to listen to.

I don't wish to cause controversy, so I will not name them, but there are "alternative health" websites out there that do things like willingly publish articles by thoroughly discredited people who knowingly defraud dying cancer patients with nonsense cures, and similar reprehensible actions.. allopathic medicine is far from the only medicine guilty of the systemic economic abuse and exploitation of sick people.
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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:11 pm

Of course there always exists charlatans in any branch of humanoid activity, whether allopathy, homeopathy, naturopathy, or anything else.

And I'm not saying that one will go to hell or be poisoned for the rest of their life if they take an aspirin a couple times. Yet I still stand by what I've posted here nevertheless.

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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby catmoon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:05 am

I'd ike to go on record as saying that this thread is about the most ridiculous, paranoid conspiracy theory I have ever run across.

The medical profession probably brought every one of us into the world safely, tended to us better than our own mothers, has patiently and expertly fixed our bad teeth, cuts and bangs, and all round prevented a life of medeival misery for all of us.

To suggest that these actions are part of some capitalist conspiracy is outright insane. To turn on your dedicated benefactors, well you might as well kill your own mother while you're at it if you are that paranoid. If you think you know better how to care for people's health than the people who have saved us all from leprosy, cholera, smallpox, polio, diptheria and hundreds of other diseases. none of which you can cure yourself.... well

Why not just declare yourself God and have done with it?
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thus-gone » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:07 am


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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:39 am

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Thrasymachus
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:51 am


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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thus-gone » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:04 am


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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:08 am

I have direct experience of being both educated, and working in the "alternative health" field, and have experienced a diversity of opinion on these and related subjects. everything you are saying here has been said by others time and again, it is not something I need to be familiarized with, as at least on some level, it was part of my education.


I am familiar with sites like Natural News, Mercola.com etc...they occasionally have good information posted, but from a perspective of alternative health that is actually concerned with evidence-based treatment rather than ideology, and what amounts to lifestyle politics zealotry, they are also full of much nonsense and have no filter for what is real and what is made up, and in some cases even fraudulent.

At any rate, this going to get circular and pointless quickly guys, i'm leaving before that happens.. thanks very much the conversation.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Thrasymachus
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thrasymachus » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:25 am


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viniketa
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby viniketa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:44 am

I'm not much into conspiracy theories nor lifestyle police, but there are many "ills" in allopathic medicine today, as it has been co-opted into plutocratic capitalism. That is the nature of capitalism. It is absolutely true that very few MDs understand preventative medicine or nutrition. In the US, in particular, we do pay more for very expensive dying, or, rather, trying to avoid the inevitability of death.

:namaste:
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catmoon
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby catmoon » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:59 pm

I don't know what kind of doctors other people are seeing, but every one I've seen strongly advocates not smoking, sleeping regularly, getting some exercise and eating a sensible diet. Of course most people ignore that advice, and get sick as a result.

But to turn around and the point the accusing finger at the medical profession is beyond unreasonable. I know some people expect the government to solve all our problems and protect us from all dangers, no matter how stupidly we behave, but it's just not possible. If we have health probems as a result of sloth, bad habits, lousy food and no sleep, that is our fault and not the doctor's.

Technology has advanced remarkably and it can in many cases patch up the damage we do to ourselves. However, MRI machines and surgical suites are very expensive things. And of course every one of us thinks it is worthwhile to spend millions on saving our precious behinds. It is an unfortunate fact that many of us have no health insurance and are lacking large sums of money. So it should come as no surprise that for many, sickness is a financial disaster. But if not the patient, who should pay? The doctor? That would put every doctor in the country out of practice in a week.

It does no good to get all frustrated over the fact that unchangeable things are the way they are. It does even less good to go seeking a scapegoat, and it is actually against the law to pillory innocent people in the public media.

So what can we do? The only things we can change are the things the doctor has been telling us all our lives -
Get some rest.
Get some exericise.
Cut out the junk food.
Stop using recreational drugs.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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AdmiralJim
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby AdmiralJim » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:10 pm

I am an ex-western medic and this thread made me actually LOL rather loudly. The advice for living a healthy life is pretty simple, we have known since ancient Greek times eating a healthy diet, exercise, good sleep and good hygiene are all beneficial and a lifestyle of excess is unhealthy, if you want overcomplicate the whole thing that is fine. I am pretty sure I gave out this simple advice many times what tended to happen is this simple advice was ignored and sickness resulted.
A good example would be the amount of obese patients who eat badly and don't exercise that developed diabetes, yet they seemed to get frustrated at how long they had to wait to see an endocrinologist at the hospital! well my dear, if you didn't stuff yourself with crap you wouldn't need the specialists help!
However, I am British and have no idea about the American health system but if anything it seems to me it is your previous governments/media who seem determined to stop access to care for those who need it, I remember the absolute trashing our socialised health system got from 'fox news' around the whole Obama care thing.
1) This despite the fact our health system is a lot cheaper than yours
2) No one would be left to die of a simple hernia across here
3) Contrary to popular belief private care is still available here for those who want it, it is just no one bothers because the free care is just as good
So please don't tar all of modern medicine as some grand conspiracy theory based on your experience of living under one system of medicine
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there

Thus-gone
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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby Thus-gone » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:06 am

If your understanding of preventative healthcare is limited to good diet, sleep and exercise, then you are not qualified to talk about preventative healthcare.

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Re: Purpose of modern medicine: no obstacle to economic growth

Postby floating_abu » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:32 pm



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