Buddhism beyond the nation state

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
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Indrajala
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Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:42 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Nemo
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Nemo » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:41 am

Almost every nation distills alcohol. All will get you drunk. But every culture imprints it's own unique style and flavour upon it. Good scotch can be made anywhere, but the recipe originally came from Scotland.

Buddhism survived unmolested in Tibet for the most part for purely geopolitical reasons. Lang Dharma had to be assassinated for Buddhism to survive. Then the geopolitical force of Mao came and destroyed it and scattered the remains to the four directions. To separate it from the present time and our cultural baggage is simple scholarship. Pretending the story of Buddhism is apolitical is disingenuous.

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby yegyal » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:23 am

First of all, Tibetans don't call it Tibetan Buddhism, they just call it Buddhism. And contrary to the above quote, most practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism are ethnically Tibetan or of Himalayan origin. For all the propaganda about westerners saving Tibetan Buddhism, we are a miniscule minority in the grand scheme of things and are actually far outnumbered by East Asian devotees who as a group have offered much more financial assistance to Tibetan institutions. And just because so called Western practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism tend to support Tibetan independence doesn't mean that these groups are "hand in hand" with the independence movement. It's more likely that they have relationships with Tibetan refugees and so are generally sympathetic to their situation.

Having said that, we tend to use the term Tibetan Buddhism in the same way we use East Asian Buddhism, i.e. to referance an extremely broad group of traditions, so, like most terms such as this, it's just a matter of ease of reference. Nevertheless, what if you were to consider the term "Tibetan" refers to the language, rather than the "nation-state" or geographical locale? Would that be such a problem? I think it is a fairly useful way of grouping these traditions, considering that we're still a very long way off from dispensing with Tibetan as the lingua franca of these particular schools.

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:08 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:12 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

yegyal
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby yegyal » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:35 pm


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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:56 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby plwk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:17 pm


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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:29 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:33 pm


yegyal
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby yegyal » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:54 pm


JKhedrup
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:03 pm

It is true what you say Yegyal.

I would say it like this: Ladakhis, Sherpas, Bhutanese and Monpas are not ethnic Tibetans but they are Tibetan Buddhists. Because the scriptural language of their Buddhist tradition is Tibetan. In the same way that Thais, Sri Lankans and Burmese are Pali Buddhists- they practice the Pali tradition of Theravada Buddhism.

However also consider that not only do these Himalayan Buddhists practice Tibetan Buddhism, they also are within the Tibetan cultural sphere, by any estimation. There may be small variations in terms of minor customs but as a whole they share a cultural legacy with the Tibetans.

Lamaism is an antiquated term no longer respected in academic circles. Tibetan Buddhism definitely deserves to be called Buddhist, especially when you look at the tremendous practice traditions and the deep philosophical texts the culture produced about essential Buddhist concepts such as the 4 Noble Truths, Bodhicitta, Madhyamika etc.

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby plwk » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:13 pm

I think those of us who were on the now defunct E-Sangha have seen how discussions there have shown the pejorative nature of 'Lamaism' akin to 'Hinayana': as a racist, propaganda, political and all that past hogwash and as what J Khedrup said as well in academia circles. So no. I wouldn't.
Perhaps, sub branches under 'Himalayan Buddhism': Himalayan States/East Asia/European? Like 'East Asian Mahayana' and its sub categories?

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Astus » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:26 pm

I prefer the linguistic-cultural differentiation. That often connects with national ideas but not necessarily. By the way, as I know there is a complete Mongolian canon, while there are no full Korean/Japanese/Vietnamese translations.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:26 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:36 pm

To be fair, those western eyes had notyet been exposed to the vast corpus of Sanskrit texts translated into Tibetan as well as many profound philosophical commentaries. They saw only the ritualustic surface and didn't have the Tibetan langyage skills necessary to go beyond that.

And divination is widely practiced in the Chinese tradition as well, they sell amulets in theravada countries. The quote to me sounds like the surface observations of a western (possibly christian) academic with an agenda to push.
Last edited by JKhedrup on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:37 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

JKhedrup
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:42 pm

I can only speak for the gelug tradition with which i am familiar, but at least a majority were exposedto tbetexts in the first few years, and were abke to read them at least. But yes, many did not finish their education or worked.

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Indrajala
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Indrajala » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:46 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhism beyond the nation state

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:34 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


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