In The Karmapa's Middle Way: Feast for the Fortunate by Tyler Dewar on page 8 ones encounters:
"One of the last great Tibetan Autonomist stalwarts was Chapa Chökyi Senge (phywa pa chos kyi seng ge, 1109-1169), a follower of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti who is said to have cleverly refuted Consequentialism, even defeating Jayānanda (ca. twelfth century), the author of the only known Indian commentary on the Entrance to the Middle Way, in debate."
The reference given is Ruegg, David Seyfort. 1981. The Literature of the Madhyamaka School of Philosophy in India. pg 113.
Turning to 113 of Ruegg I see nothing that supports this assertion. Does anyone know of a source for more info about this purported debate?
Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
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Vajrasvapna
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Re: Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... Seng%C3%A9Greg wrote:In The Karmapa's Middle Way: Feast for the Fortunate by Tyler Dewar on page 8 ones encounters:
"One of the last great Tibetan Autonomist stalwarts was Chapa Chökyi Senge (phywa pa chos kyi seng ge, 1109-1169), a follower of Dignāga and Dharmakīrti who is said to have cleverly refuted Consequentialism, even defeating Jayānanda (ca. twelfth century), the author of the only known Indian commentary on the Entrance to the Middle Way, in debate."
The reference given is Ruegg, David Seyfort. 1981. The Literature of the Madhyamaka School of Philosophy in India. pg 113.
Turning to 113 of Ruegg I see nothing that supports this assertion. Does anyone know of a source for more info about this purported debate?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.
Re: Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
I'm going to like follow you guys as teachers if it's okay so I will try to keep my mouth shut and just listen.
Just because you lose or win in debate does not mean you are right or wrong. Naropa almost lost once and had to call on Tilopa. Was it Nalanda who was in debate and had to call on Padmasambhawa as Senge Dongma.
Also Aryadeva had to defeat the tirthika who was calling on the Divine Son, Maheshvara and other worldly deities.
Just means one is better at debate and swift pithy answers.
I'll just listen.
Just because you lose or win in debate does not mean you are right or wrong. Naropa almost lost once and had to call on Tilopa. Was it Nalanda who was in debate and had to call on Padmasambhawa as Senge Dongma.
Also Aryadeva had to defeat the tirthika who was calling on the Divine Son, Maheshvara and other worldly deities.
Just means one is better at debate and swift pithy answers.
I'll just listen.
I should be meditating.
Re: Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
Nālandā was the university/monastery the debate was held at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda, and Padmasambhava emanated as Senge Dradog (not Senge Dongma) because the debate between Padmasambhava and the tīrthika scholars escalated to a display of siddhis and magic. The non-buddhists made a threat with their magic, and Padmasambhava warned them that whatever provocation they had made was a bad idea, but the tīrthikas (underestimating Padmasambhava) scoffed at his remark and attacked anyway... so Padmasambhava emanated as Senge Dradog and destroyed them.lorem wrote:Was it Nalanda who was in debate and had to call on Padmasambhawa as Senge Dongma.
Re: Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
Introduction to the Middle Way, pg 34. Endnote 30.
Recounted by Shakya Chogden. della Santina, Madhyamaka Schools, pg 85.
Maybe kusulu not pandit (me).
from Tilopa. Don't recall. Don't imagine. Don't think. Don't examine. Don't control. Rest.
Recounted by Shakya Chogden. della Santina, Madhyamaka Schools, pg 85.
Maybe kusulu not pandit (me).
from Tilopa. Don't recall. Don't imagine. Don't think. Don't examine. Don't control. Rest.
I should be meditating.
Re: Chapa Chökyi Senge refutes Prāsaṅgika?
Thanks for these! It is suggested that he also wrote refutations. I wonder if any of it is still extant.lorem wrote:Introduction to the Middle Way, pg 34. Endnote 30.
Recounted by Shakya Chogden. della Santina, Madhyamaka Schools, pg 85.
Maybe kusulu not pandit (me).
from Tilopa. Don't recall. Don't imagine. Don't think. Don't examine. Don't control. Rest.