Re: Gorampa untenable according to Karmapa
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:48 pm
Here I made the syntesis from my previous posts based on quotes:
The "self-liberation" for Centrists (Madhyamikas) means never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of what was never in the first place. Never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of the seeming which was never in the first place (sentient beings; obscurations to liberation and to omniscience). Never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of perfect nirvāṇa by nature which was never in the first place (buddhahood).
It also means there is always the need (process, production, possibility) for worldly beings of the Dharma Path as the method of the seeming (the obscurations to liberation and to omniscience).
Why it is the method of the seeming only. Because for worldly beings in Mahayana it seems to last the three incalculable eons during many reincarnations as bodhisattva, in tantra one human lifetime, in Dzogchen seems to be already the "self-liberated". So where is the time here when the method is possible? So according to Centrists the method was never at the first place but only seems to be.
Worldly beings as Animals, Humans, Pretas perceive differently. But there is the Path for them indeed. Because of this Path, sentient beings by subject-side perceive gross Nirmanakaya, bodhisattvas free from clinging perceive subtle Sambhogakaya, buddhas?.... because there is not any division at this level "they" can not continue to perceive but the Dharmakaya. The object of all of these is what? The division is where? For Centrists never was at the first place but only seems to.
Nevetheless, until it seems to be division is also the Path. This Path leads to the no division. When division between "Buddha" and "sentient being" is completely no more, it means the all qualities (Dharmakaya, Rupakaya). This means: All divisions belong to the seeming not to the buddhas.
According to Centrists the “Two Truths” division is only from deceiving perspective of sentient beings (the seeming): conventional - it is not possible to know by them the infinitive causes/conditions or cognitions of any object, ultimate - is not possible for sentient beings to have the freedom from all reference points. Conventional reality of any object is "workable daily life" consensus only as far as not analyzed (sentient beings). When analyzed is completely lost (Centrists).
In Buddhahood there is no such division: if Buddha would know precisely the seeming (the omniscience) it will be the total freedom from all reference points.
The both "the two truths" are the same impossible for sentient beings, and the same beyond "the seeming of sentient being" (so impossible for sentient beings) from the perspective of buddhas. So there is no any basis or need for divisions.
If is any error in this syntesis, please let me know where. Thanx
The "self-liberation" for Centrists (Madhyamikas) means never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of what was never in the first place. Never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of the seeming which was never in the first place (sentient beings; obscurations to liberation and to omniscience). Never need (process, production, possibility) of liberation of perfect nirvāṇa by nature which was never in the first place (buddhahood).
It also means there is always the need (process, production, possibility) for worldly beings of the Dharma Path as the method of the seeming (the obscurations to liberation and to omniscience).
Why it is the method of the seeming only. Because for worldly beings in Mahayana it seems to last the three incalculable eons during many reincarnations as bodhisattva, in tantra one human lifetime, in Dzogchen seems to be already the "self-liberated". So where is the time here when the method is possible? So according to Centrists the method was never at the first place but only seems to be.
Worldly beings as Animals, Humans, Pretas perceive differently. But there is the Path for them indeed. Because of this Path, sentient beings by subject-side perceive gross Nirmanakaya, bodhisattvas free from clinging perceive subtle Sambhogakaya, buddhas?.... because there is not any division at this level "they" can not continue to perceive but the Dharmakaya. The object of all of these is what? The division is where? For Centrists never was at the first place but only seems to.
Nevetheless, until it seems to be division is also the Path. This Path leads to the no division. When division between "Buddha" and "sentient being" is completely no more, it means the all qualities (Dharmakaya, Rupakaya). This means: All divisions belong to the seeming not to the buddhas.
According to Centrists the “Two Truths” division is only from deceiving perspective of sentient beings (the seeming): conventional - it is not possible to know by them the infinitive causes/conditions or cognitions of any object, ultimate - is not possible for sentient beings to have the freedom from all reference points. Conventional reality of any object is "workable daily life" consensus only as far as not analyzed (sentient beings). When analyzed is completely lost (Centrists).
In Buddhahood there is no such division: if Buddha would know precisely the seeming (the omniscience) it will be the total freedom from all reference points.
The both "the two truths" are the same impossible for sentient beings, and the same beyond "the seeming of sentient being" (so impossible for sentient beings) from the perspective of buddhas. So there is no any basis or need for divisions.
If is any error in this syntesis, please let me know where. Thanx