Shikantaza & Visions

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Astus
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Astus » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:52 am

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



thigle
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby thigle » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:49 pm


thigle
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby thigle » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:52 pm


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Luke
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Luke » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:09 am

Dear Thigle,

I am not sure if you are going to find anyone who will observe their meditation experiences in exactly the way you want them to while using exactly the language you want them to. Perhaps the best thing would be for you to practice with a Soto Zen group for a while yourself and then to observe your own experiences while doing so. :namaste:

thigle
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby thigle » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:16 pm


Matylda
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Matylda » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:26 am

I think someone tries here to give instructions and plays his role of a teacher of soto or dzogchen... better stop it. It is just heap of nonsens.

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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby thigle » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:49 am

Middle capacity of direct understanding:

Leave everything as it is. But now you practice "leaving everything as it is" instead of leaving everything as it is. You concern your task under mistaken basic conditions. Recognice the difference between practiced "leaving everything as it is" and factual "leaving everything as it is" exactly, and leave everything as it is. The first time as fact. This primordial 'natural looseness' is not constructed. Completely naturally by itself, it doesn't matter whether it has a origin, or no origin. "It doesn't matter" is immediate-obvious knowledge and knowledge is "it doesn't matter", primordial inseparable from what appears. Hence everything is the expression of knowledge, which is called transparency.

Marginal Note I: In the beginning knowledge/transparency is only temporaly. Ignorance seems to come back again and again, but now you know without a doubt that neither practice nor reified a reified nonpractice is necessary. Therefore you take a subtle decision and primordial stability is the result.

Marginal Note II: The term 'immediate' should not be understood in a temporal sense. It's just primordial naturally without any need for an artificial knowledge-focus like this: "Now, knowledge/transparency is obvious".

Marginal Note III: The term 'naturally loosed' does not mean practiced natural looseness. But some people do that in perfection. They do not know that they only practise. Such a reified nonpractice tends to a special state of consciousness. Now the disciple maybe think: "That's the big goal, because of my natural relaxation, I have the sensation of clarity or openness. But these are are only reified concepts, based on grasping and the complementary big brother. That's really different from the terms "naturally relaxed" or "naturally loosed" in our context. What sounds the same, may also be different.

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Sara H
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Sara H » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:29 am

Hoo! It's been a while since I've been on here! Wow! *dusts off the account*

So I just wanted to point out, that visions and such, are not necessarily considered makyo in Soto Zen. Dogen had extensive visions himself, and attached great importance to them, as did Keizan. There are actually numerous records of this, including in Dogen's own hand.

For example, one of his most famous, was one of 16 Arhants appearing to him at Eiheiji, during a ceremony.

He wrote about the importance of it:

""As for other examples of the appearance of auspicious signs, apart from [the case of] the rock bridge of Mount Tiantai, [in the province] of Taizhou, in the great kingdom of the Song, nowhere else to my knowledge has there been one to compare with this one. But on this mountain [Kichijōsan, the location of Eiheiji] many apparitions have already happened. This is truly a very auspicious sign showing that, in their deep compassion, [the Arahats] are protecting the men and the Dharma of this mountain. This is why it appeared to me."

-Eihei Dōgen
in the Dōgen Zenji Zenshū

Soto Zen has always been a very "visionary" branch of Zen. Keizan had many visions, and recorded them in detail in the Record of Tokoku.

While most visions and things that occur before kensho experience are dismissed as makyo, visions during, and after kensho are not. And those are treated with a lot more seriousness.

Ultimately a vision has to be let go of like anything else, after all, clinging to anything is not good. But that doesn't mean the visions themselves can't impart great value, or teaching, or be of great spiritual merit.

Not everyone has visions, and they aren't necessarily doing their practice badly if they don't. But some people do, and some people have lots, and they can be of great value to those who do, and they are not necessarily just distracting makyo to be dismissed.
"Life is full of suffering. AND Life is full of the Eternal
IT IS OUR CHOICE
We can stand in our shadow, and wallow in the darkness,
OR
We can turn around.
It is OUR choice." -Rev. Basil Singer

" ...out of fear, even the good harm one another. " -Rev. Dazui MacPhillamy

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catmoon
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby catmoon » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:47 am

You look at a cloud and see a rabbit.
There is no rabbit.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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Sara H
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Sara H » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:54 am

Hey Catmoon! Long time! :)
"Life is full of suffering. AND Life is full of the Eternal
IT IS OUR CHOICE
We can stand in our shadow, and wallow in the darkness,
OR
We can turn around.
It is OUR choice." -Rev. Basil Singer

" ...out of fear, even the good harm one another. " -Rev. Dazui MacPhillamy

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catmoon
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby catmoon » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:08 am

Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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Dan74
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Dan74 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:47 am

Hi Sara :hi:

Happy to see some activity in the Zen parts of the forum. They've been pretty quite until recently.
Hope you stick around.

_/|\_

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Sara H
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Re: Shikantaza & Visions

Postby Sara H » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:58 pm

Hi Dan! We'll see.

I may stick around for a little bit. The Zen boards have always been a bit quiet though, but I may stick around for a little bit. :)
"Life is full of suffering. AND Life is full of the Eternal
IT IS OUR CHOICE
We can stand in our shadow, and wallow in the darkness,
OR
We can turn around.
It is OUR choice." -Rev. Basil Singer

" ...out of fear, even the good harm one another. " -Rev. Dazui MacPhillamy


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