Dogen & Kensho

[Astus]

"Some people think mind to be permanent and body to be impermanent. In this case, mind was considered to be atman; that is, pure and permanent. And the body was considered to be the source of delusive desire and impermanent. In this case, mind was called shinsho (mind nature) and body was called shinso (bodily form). And this mind-nature was often used as a synonym of buddha-nature. This is the reason Dogen negates the idea of kensho (seeing the nature)."
(Shohaku Okumura: Dogen Zenji's Genjo-koan)

"Seeing the mind and seeing the nature is the animated activity of non-Buddhists."
(Sansuigyo, SBGZ, vol 1, p 219, BDK Edition)

"The essence of the Buddha-Dharma is never seeing the nature. Where has any of the Seven Buddhas or the twenty-eight patriarchs of India said that the Buddha-Dharma is only “seeing the nature”? The Sixth Patriarch’s Platform Sutra contains the words “seeing the nature,” but that text is a fake text; it is not the writing of one to whom the Dharma treasury was transmitted, and it is not the words of Sōkei. It is a text upon which descendants of the Buddhist Patriarch absolutely never rely."
(Shizen-biku, SBGZ, vol 4, p 269, BDK Edition)

[明安 Myoan]

Astus, what is your understanding of Dogen's quotes?

For instance:

To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature. Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha[/b]. If you don’t see your nature, invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are all useless.
...
Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha. But suppose I don’t see my nature, cant I still attain enlightenment by invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, observing precepts, Practicing devotions, or doing good works?
No, you can’t.

I feel Dogen may be criticizing some kind of quietism where you "view" the mind and feel the matter of life/death is is thereby resolved, or that one has some permanent buddhahood simply from having a mystical experience, or for doing religious practice at all.

But who am I to say?
I know I practice my ass off.
Your posts in the past have helped me a lot not to forget impermanence, to enter practice thousands and thousands of times.

[Astus]

I feel Dogen may be criticizing some kind of quietism where you "view" the mind and feel the matter of life/death is is thereby resolved, or that one has some permanent buddhahood simply from having a mystical experience, or for doing religious practice at all.

It is not quetism but the separation of practice from enlightenment that is the problem addressed here, that is, when one uses a method in order to attain kensho. Dogen teaches the unity of practice-enlightenment, thus the complete realisation is already present in zazen. There is no other nature to be seen besides the ungraspability (不得) of appearances.

"Study thusness as ungraspable. Inquire about ungraspability in thusness. This thusness, this ungraspability, is not merely concerned with buddha thoughts. Understanding is ungraspable. Enlightenment is ungraspable."
(Inmo, SBGZ, ed. Kazuaki Tanahashi)

Therefore positing a kensho to be gained or realised through a process is a mistaken approach. Actually, that's the same thing the Platform Sutra says, and that's the very meaning of the sudden teaching.

"Dogen was critical of kensho oriented practices such as the kensho jobutsu practice of the Nihon Daruma-shu."
(Okumura: Realizing Genjokoan, p254, n14)

"One difference between Dogen’s use of koan study and a stereotypical modern view of koan practice can be found in his critique of kensho as a goal. This term, which means “seeing the nature,” has been understood at times to refer to an opening experience of attainment of realization, going beyond conceptual thinking. Dogen believes that this is a dualistic misunderstanding and such experiences are not to be emphasized. For Dogen, Buddha nature is not an object to merely see or acquire, but a mode of being that must be actually lived and expressed."
(Taigen Dan Leighton: Introduction, in Dogen's Extensive Record, p 30)

"Because the one mind is the supreme vehicle, we speak of ‘direct pointing into the human heart’ and ‘seeing the nature and becoming buddha.’” This expression is never about the everyday conduct of the Buddha-Dharma: it lacks the vigorous road of getting the body free, and it has no dignified behavior throughout the body. Fellows like this, even hundreds or thousands of years ago, were proclaiming themselves to be leading authorities; but we should know that, if they had such talk as this, they neither clarified nor penetrated the Buddha’s Dharma and the Buddha’s truth. Why not? Because of not knowing “buddha,” not knowing “the teaching,” not knowing “the mind,” not knowing “inside,” and not knowing “outside.”"
(Bukkyo, SBGZ, vol 2, p 70, BDK Edition)

[Caodemarte]

Astute said : "It is not quetism but the separation of practice from enlightenment that is the problem addressed here, that is, when one uses a method in order to attain kensho. Dogen teaches the unity of practice-enlightenment, thus the complete realisation is already present in zazen. There is no other nature to be seen besides the ungraspability (不得) of appearances."

That is really nice, as is "Therefore positing a kensho to be gained or realised through a process is a mistaken approach. Actually, that's the same thing the Platform Sutra says, .", but could you clarify "and that's the very meaning of the sudden teaching.?"

[Astus]

could you clarify "and that's the very meaning of the sudden teaching.?"

the very meaning: "the unity of practice-enlightenment, thus the complete realisation is already present in zazen. There is no other nature to be seen besides the ungraspability (不得) of appearances."

In other words, instead of gradually following a process to reach enlightenment, one goes from ignorance to wisdom in a single step.

[Caodemarte]

Thank you for a very nice posting.

[明安 Myoan]

How then to stop the habit of grasping, even if grasping is ungraspable?
There's always some after the fact realization, "a thought" then the thought dissipates. But sometimes only after quite a bit of development and proliferation, sometimes with attendant suffering or craving.

[Astus]

How then to stop the habit of grasping, even if grasping is ungraspable?

Grasping is the result of ignorance about the nature of experiences. Seeing that appearances are originally thus - i.e. no matter what you do, the aggregates and the six sensory impressions come and go - the unfounded, illusory quality of a substantial reality is revealed right there. The point is, you don't stop anything, you directly enlighten that there is no permanent entity to liberate.

[Dan74]

The thing is the delusive habits of old don't suddenly dissipate and the practice must continue to sweep them clean. At the very least. Isn't that what Hongzhi taught too?

[Astus]

The thing is the delusive habits of old don't suddenly dissipate and the practice must continue to sweep them clean. At the very least. Isn't that what Hongzhi taught too?

Practically speaking, if it is clear that phenomena are without substance, thus they don't move you, they are not defilements any more. If one had to wait for habits to dissipate it would never end. In fact, life is a huge mass of habits. It is within habits that one should find liberation. Or as I was once told: within the fixed posture of zazen one has to find total freedom. When Hongzhi seems to talk about is not the "polish the mirror" type, but rather stabilising one's practice. See for yourself:

From Practice Instructions:

"From the beginning the clouds leisurely release their rain, drifting past obstacles. The direct teaching is very pure and steady. Nothing can budge it. Immediately, without allowing past conditions to turn you, genuinely embody it."

"The practice of true reality is simply to sit serenely in silent introspection. When you have fathomed this you cannot be turned around by external causes and conditions. This empty, wide open mind is subtlety and correctly illuminating. Spacious and content, without confusion from inner thoughts or grasping, effectively overcome habitual behavior and realize the self that is not possessed by emotions. You must be broad-minded, whole without relying on others."

"Emptiness is without characteristics. Illumination has no emotional afflictions. With piercing, quietly profound radiance, it mysteriously eliminates all disgrace."

"Spiritual and bright, vast and lustrous, illuminating fully what is before you, directly attain the shining light and clarity that cannot attach to a single defilement. Immediately tug and pull back the ox's nose. Of course his horns are imposing and he stomps around like a beast, yet he never damages people's sprouts or grain."

"From the beginning it is altogether complete, undefiled and clear down to the bottom. Where everything is correct and totally sufficient, attain the pure eye that illuminates thoroughly, fulfilling liberation. Enlightenment involves enacting this; stability develops from practicing it."

"Immediately you follow conditions and accord with awakening without obstruction from any defilements. The mind does not attach to things, and your footsteps are not visible on the road. Then you are called to continue the family business. Even if you thoroughly understand, still please practice until it is familiar."

"Open-minded and bright without defilement, simply penetrate and drop off everything. Today is not your first arrival here. since the ancient home before the empty kalpa, clearly nothing has been obscured. Although you are inherently spirited and splendid, still you must go ahead and enact it. When doing so, immediately display every atom without hiding a speck of dirt."