Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the path

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prsvrnc
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Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the path

Post by prsvrnc »

A qualified teacher told me that for practitioners that are highly achieved on the path, they often go through difficulties with sleep -- and I am not here talking about utilizing sleep as means for attainment (but it could also be that in some way/shape/form), but more rather (and this is only my interpretation of it), that.. the whole sleep cycle is basically transmmuted over time.... So for example, I am studying with one teacher now (a different one than the one who initially told me) who is highly attained. In the monastery, he had sleep troubles for 7 months where he could not sleep at night.
The way I imagine this-- basically we have ordinary appearance (?) and grasping at our body of its needs and so forth. Even if an enlightened being would still have those needs, there is a point in time which the perception of those needs be translated into a way where the individual isn't grasping at them as signals that NEED to be attended to. So, as one goes through that process of letting go of them, the normal cycles might get screwed up... as the affliction of that particular need becomes enhanced and so forth.
god am i making sense....
Trungpa also talks about how bodily afflictions can become really intense, before attainment of tummo and so forth.
if someone is going to respond and say to stop talking about advanced stages of practice well then please don't respond but if you have something intelligent RE THIS TOPIC then i am interested. in other words, i am NOT looking for practice advice or any "dharma wisdom" above or beyond more info as it relates to this topic and/or how other people understand it. thank youuuuuuu :yinyang: :yinyang: :yinyang: :yinyang: :namaste: :namaste: :namaste: :namaste:
SeeLion
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by SeeLion »

Heard a teacher saying that if one does not fall asleep, it means they don't need it.

Various sources say that meditation drastically reduces the need for sleep.
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Kaccāni
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by Kaccāni »

I've passed a point where you realize that being tired more or less is "just another layer of thought". Thus, as long as you stay disidentified of thoughts, no being tired. That hower is more of a perceptional phenomenon and does not mean that your neurons and physiology don't need rest do recover. You'll have to go sleep, which definitely can become difficult if you're just not tired. Personally, my rhythm at times is free-wheeling. It's not a problem if you can sleep when you're tired, which is what should naturally happen. But if you're a working member of society, this may create some problems. You have to take care not to overexert your body by your increased capability of just going on and concentrate on whatever comes.

Best wishes
Kc
Shush! I'm doing nose-picking practice!
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by Kim O'Hara »

SeeLion wrote:Various sources say that meditation drastically reduces the need for sleep.
Even a small amount of meditation (e.g half an hour per day) over a matter of months can cut the need for sleep by an hour or so per night.

prsvnc, you might like to look up 'sleeping yoga' too.

:namaste:
Kim
joy&peace
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by joy&peace »

Many things are very useful in this; being at home wherever we are. . we can do many things restfully, rejuvenatingly. . . this really brings great vitality and aids health. . besides meditation there is one secret, sort of a physiological button, to roll the eyes upwards, for 15-25 seconds or so, my dad taught me this as a kid.. . not a replacement for meditation, but this sends waves of relaxation throughout the body.

If we can give / receive ten hugs a day, that's very good, too. It's funny, when cats close their eyes slowly, it's a universal communique that they are showing total happiness, and one can communicate with them in this way. Since I was a boy, I thought it would be good if we do this - I didn't know about the cats' communicating, but still I thought this. Anyway it is restful and good :smile:

Staring at the horizon is very nice, because it relaxes the eye muscles - they relax fully to gaze at something on the horizon; and that's just a very useful thing, as well as slightly improving one's vision.

A while ago I learned that sleep de-toxes the brain. . . that's one of its functions; this was eureka moment for me, as I realized - okay, spend the day in such a way as I don't accumulate any , and it worked wonders.

Namaste and Peace.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha
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BrianG
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by BrianG »

prsvrnc wrote:A qualified teacher told me that for practitioners that are highly achieved on the path, they often go through difficulties with sleep --
This is due to changes that occur in their bodies, that is a byproduct, but not goal, of practice.
...if someone is going to respond and say to stop talking about advanced stages of practice well then please don't respond...
You shouldn't tell people how to respond, that's up to them. If someone tells you that it is not appropriate to not talk about advanced stages of practice, then it might be for you own benefit.
Telepaths - I like to kill them
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Tashi delek ,

In Kagyud 3 years and 3 months retreat , the "students" sleep in the box straight / vertical.
Mostly we sat in the box, except for toilet and food.
Yes my experience was there was no need for much sleep. I slept for about 1 or two hour , i was a little dizzy (Hedawa in Bon Dzogchen) only. One cannot sleep in the box, at least not so easy.

But there was not much difference between sleep and no sleep. Even in the few hours sleep, the Mantras did go round. The never ending vertical meditation position makes also the meditation etc. easier to master.

So no sleep is also a method, somehow.

Further with not so much sleep we could easier manage the daily program / scheldule.


Mutsug Marro
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The best meditation is no meditation
etinin
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by etinin »

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek ,

In Kagyud 3 years and 3 months retreat , the "students" sleep in the box straight / vertical.
Mostly we sat in the box, except for toilet and food.
Yes my experience was there was no need for much sleep. I slept for about 1 or two hour , i was a little dizzy (Hedawa in Bon Dzogchen) only. One cannot sleep in the box, at least not so easy.

But there was not much difference between sleep and no sleep. Even in the few hours sleep, the Mantras did go round. The never ending vertical meditation position makes also the meditation etc. easier to master.

So no sleep is also a method, somehow.

Further with not so much sleep we could easier manage the daily program / scheldule.


Mutsug Marro
KY
I was always curious about sleep in meditation boxes during the 3-years retreat. Thanks for the info
--Karma Rigpe Wangchuk

"Meditation brings wisdom. Lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what holds you back."
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pael
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by pael »

I wake almost 10 times each night.Doctors treatment doesn't work. I can't sleep on my right side (lion posture), only left. Is there any cures?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
SeeLion
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by SeeLion »

I usually sleep well, but when I wake up at night, I try to enter meditation in the exact position I wake up, as soon as possible.
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Ayu
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Re: Sleep... and how this is or is not transformed on the pa

Post by Ayu »

pael wrote:I wake almost 10 times each night.Doctors treatment doesn't work. I can't sleep on my right side (lion posture), only left. Is there any cures?
I think, if you can sleep only on the left side, then this is something you have to accept. What about sleeping on the back? This would give the left nostril also the possibility to breathe.
My left nostril opens as soon as I meditate. When I am sick, it is closed.
The only remedy I can think of is: Relax.

Edit: Such questions are good to ask in meatspace to an advanced teacher.
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