Minor health issues due to meditation and tantric practice

[zenman]

Hello

I have met several people, in zen mostly, along the years who did serious meditation practice for many years. Practices lead to a thorough transformation but also caused some, sort of minor, health issues. I am also under the impression that tantric have similar problems, like body heat/temperature issues and aches and pains. I suppose people who meditate a lot actually do suffer less pains, ailments and sickness than epopel who don't parctice but I still don't quite understand why these minor ailments occur. Are they common, first of all? Why do they occur?

Thank you.

ZM

[Zhen Li]

People who do tantra may have different answers, but from the Ch'an perspective, I find that I am simply more mindful than I was before, so I notice little things like body heat, which previously would have simply been on the periphery of consciousness.

[SeeLion]

Probably each of them occurs for a different reason. My understanding is that everything potentially has some side-effects.

For example, sitting meditation can have a negative effect on the joints and blood flow in the legs.

[etinin]

About tantra, you need to talk to the guru about your specific experiences.
But, talking about experiences in general, specifically about shamata/vypassyana, which is less troublesome to speak about, in tibetan there is a term, 'nyam', to refer to meditation experiences. They can be either positive or negative. In sutra, the recomendation is to continue if you have negative effects, with some specific methods in case the mind refuses to settle down. Since we are talking about tantra, there is no way a specific recomendation can be made by anyone but by your teacher. It really depends on what's going on, the tantra, etc. Tantra can be harmful if not practiced as oriented by a master. It can be dangerous, Trungpa used to say you can't stay still with vajrayana, you either go up or down. Also, be careful not to make any definite conclusion. It is very common for us who are inexperienced meditators to attribute problems to meditation and then create psychogenic issues.

[Caodemarte]

Old Zen monks attribute hemorrhoids and constipation to long sitting practice. I am not sure if this is actually the medical cause. I suspect diet has more to do with the constipation.

[kirtu]

In fact amoungst Taoist circles it is common knowledge that meditation can cause chi flow to change and esp. to get stuck. Sometimes this is harmful and can result in disease or "psychological" issues. Which is why there are exercises for exactly this after the form of Taoist meditation that I am familiar with (as with most systems, there are different kinds of Taoist meditation - I am referring to one specific one but it is similar to Zen in some ways). And this meditation specifically has you cultivating chi to begin with.

However in *most* cases, relaxing and exercising or doing something in nature will by itself relieve the situation.

Tibetan tantra is different. Taoist would assert the same thing as cause in most physical cases but the cases presenting themselves might be very different. In which case one would need to speak with a lama for sure.

Kirt

[passel]

This:

http://landofcalmabiding.org/content/lu ... -ease-lung

Lots of good advice.

IMO, plenty of nourishing, whole-body breathing is appropriate for any kind of meditator (or anyone else). Gets you out of your head figuratively and literally. It's funny- we get into a mode of pushing like a demon so that sometime in the future we can be balanced and serene. It's absurd but we do it anyway. Tsoknyi Ripoche's latest book (Open Heart Open Mind) goes into it some, and there's quite a bit on his website:

http://www.tsoknyirinpoche.org/1435/a-v ... ne-of-two/
http://www.tsoknyirinpoche.org/8877/tso ... view-lung/

There used to be a several page talk by him on the web on the topic that was quite good but I can't find it anymore.

I haven't read it yet, but Anyen Ripoche's latest book is on lung more broadly and I would imagine he goes into possible problems in that.

Note that these are all open presentations, informed by tantric meditation, but not concerned with the kind of completion stage practices that work strongly with subtle energies and need a reliable guide.

This last link is not specific to meditation, but describes Over Training Syndrome experienced by endurance athletes. It's a little-understood phenomenon, but it sure sounds a lot like a very specific sort of lung disorder to me:

http://www.outsideonline.com/1986361/running-empty

[passel]

found it:

www.buddhistmala.com/store/Lung.doc

[zenman]

Thanks all for the input. I have to go through those links....

[lostitude]

Old Zen monks attribute hemorrhoids and constipation to long sitting practice. I am not sure if this is actually the medical cause. I suspect diet has more to do with the constipation.

Sitting for hours on end is definitely a known cause of constipation. When you sit still, your bowel movements also greatly diminish (and I suspect that stilling your mind will make them diminish even more) and this can quickly cause constipation. Among the advice commonly given to those who suffer from it is to walk more and often get up during the day if working in a office setting.

[Jinzang]

In Hakuin's autobiography he talks about the health issues he had as a result of his meditation and the practice he received from an old hermit that resolved them. As I remember it, the practice involved imagining a lump of butter on the crown of his head and as he recited a short prayer, the lump melted and pervaded his body.

[Meido]

There are actually two practices Hakuin transmitted which he used to recover from illness: nanso no ho (aka the "soft butter" or ghee method) and naikan no ho.

A description of nanso no ho for anyone interested, from Yasen Kanna (printed 1757):

Imagine that a lump of soft butter, pure in color and fragrance and the size and shape of a duck egg, is suddenly placed on the top of your head. As it begins to slowly melt, it imparts an exquisite sensation, moistening and saturating your head within and without.

It continues to ooze down, moistening your shoulders, elbows, and chest; permeating lungs, diaphragm, liver, stomach, and bowels; moving down the spine through the hips pelvis, and buttocks. At that point, all the congestions that have accumulated within the five organs and six viscera, all the aches and pains in the abdomen and other affected parts, will follow the heart as it sinks downward into the lower body. As it does, you will distinctly hear a sound like that of water trickling from a higher to a lower place. It will move lower down through the lower body, suffusing the legs with beneficial warmth, until it reaches the soles of the feet, where it stops.

The student should then repeat the contemplation. As his vital energy flows downward, it gradually fills the lower region of the body, suffusing it with penetrating warmth, making him feel as if he were sitting up to his navel in a hot bath filled with a decoction of rare and fragrant medicinal herbs that have been gathered and infused by a skilled physician.

~ Meido