Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

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Zhen Li
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Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Zhen Li » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:10 pm


DiamondSutra
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby DiamondSutra » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:04 am

Great post!

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby seeker242 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:08 am

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Zhen Li
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:57 am


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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:58 am

Yeah..I think 90% of the time (at least) we don't discuss politics with anything resembling a good motivation.
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:16 am


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Indrajala
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Indrajala » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:17 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Indrajala » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:21 am

If you're a bodhisattva aspirant, then being actively engaged with the world is part of the practice. If, on the other hand, your aspirations are towards arhatship, then political engagement is unwise.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:02 am


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Indrajala
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Indrajala » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:09 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby BrianG » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:47 am

Telepaths - I like to kill them

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby muni » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:58 am

Interesting sharing. :smile:
Zen Dude: "Buddhists engaging in politics just reinforces faith in superheroes..." Worldly power. :namaste:

:soapbox: I should say as long as misperception is the ruler of our mind we should be careful; not to get more entangled by our opinions about others. It is killing our mindfulness by training the dual clinging mind; believing all phenomena are really permanent and we must talk/(do?) something about that. Critics on others can smoothly keep the joy of our suffering turning (aspect of samsara), to satisfy emotional-cognetive obscurations.

Buddha wasn’t involved and didn’t fixate his mind on the many wrong appearing ones (he didn’t percieve such), he remained watching own Mind. By wisdom compassion never loses. But in case we as simple beings can help those, involved in a political case then I think, we should not neglect.

The awaken ones, I am sure they can freely dig into political games in order to help, without doubts. Like pulling the dust from inside, to help to clean the wound from inside out.

:smile:

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Grigoris » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:33 am

First of all the teaching is in regards to Brahmins and contemplatives (and here, I believe the term contemplatives is referring to shramaneras / monks / ascetics)

Secondly, the Buddha himself advised ministers, kings, etc... so obviously he was not anti-political.

I think that it is obvious that motivation is the key factor. For example, one may cite the above quote in order to quell and silence political opposition (in a Buddhist country). One may use it in order to tacitly support existing political/economic conditions (citing the existing conditions as the "natural order", the way things are and always have been).

Worldly circumstances are important, as they provide the conditions for practice. Let's say you live in a peaceful, democratic country with freedom of religious practice and somebody comes along that uses political means to impose their will and restrict freedom of religious practice (your practice, for example), or to persecute a specific ethnic group in society (which may impinge upon your access to teachers and teachings). Would it be wrong speech to oppose their plans? And here I am giving an example from a purely ego-centered perspective. There is also the Bodhisattva perspective where one may oppose, or question, certain political decisions since they obviously cause an increase in the suffering of sentient beings.

So I am going to have to disagree with your view that political discussion is wrong speech. It can be wrong speech. But at the same time the suppression of political discussion can also be antithetical to liberation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:30 pm


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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby seeker242 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:59 pm

One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:04 pm


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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby theanarchist » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:15 pm


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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby theanarchist » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 pm


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Zhen Li
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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:30 pm

theanarchist, I think if you read everything that I wrote carefully, you may find that I have discussed those concerns.
:namaste:

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Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Postby Rickpa » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:47 pm

Discussing politics is probably fine up to a point. That point would be engaging in politics in order to advance what one wishes for, and in opposition to what other people wish for. When we allow our mind and speech to cast persons or groups of people as worthy of our compassion, and others as worthy of the heels our feet; When we grow resentment against people who have enjoyed success and gain; When we celebrate the bad qualities of those that we have chosen to dislike, without actually knowing these people; When we celebrate the good qualities of those whom we have chosen to champion, without actually knowing them; When we actively engage in conflicts between persons, groups, and factions.... These things being the case, we are probably not only failing to engage in the Dharma, but are actually in full service of our kleshas, and worldly dharmas to such an extent that we have separated from even the benefits of the hearers, let alone Mahayana.

If you can discuss political topics with equanimity, perhaps you can be helpful. I just know that I am at my worst when I cling to views. Their only benefit is seeing how views nullify benefits.


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