Suffice to say that Vajrayāna recommends a middle way between abstinence and overindulgence.boda wrote:Conviviality I had to look that up. Suffice to say that Vajrayāna values chemical dependencies over training?Malcolm wrote:It is not the anesthetic quality that is valued in Vajrayāna, but rather the conviviality that accompanies its consumption in small quantities.boda wrote:
5 precepts. Alcohol?
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Effectively to this case I believe the middle way here is between training more or less diligently. No crime or sin, though perhaps a broken vow or promise, if such a vow were taken.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
That vow, like all vows, exist for those who need them. Not all practitioners do.boda wrote:Effectively to this case I believe the middle way here is between training more or less diligently. No crime or sin, though perhaps a broken vow or promise, if such a vow were taken.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Not all practitioners are willing or able to.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?boda wrote:Not all practitioners are willing or able to.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
The way my Gelug teacher explained it to me is that simply abstaining from one of the negative actions is a non-action It is a zero. Whereas taking the vow and upholding it is meritorious and a cause for liberation. Arhats aren't just people that behave themselves.Malcolm wrote:
Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Right, i think that explanation is very limited in its understanding.smcj wrote:The way my Gelug teacher explained it to me is that simply abstaining from one of the negative actions is a non-action It is a zero. Whereas taking the vow and upholding it is meritorious and a cause for liberation. Arhats aren't just people that behave themselves.Malcolm wrote:
Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.Malcolm wrote:Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?boda wrote:Not all practitioners are willing or able to.
Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.boda wrote:Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.Malcolm wrote:Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?boda wrote:Not all practitioners are willing or able to.
Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
It doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism particularly. We are a social species and have limited willpower.Malcolm wrote:This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.boda wrote:Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.Malcolm wrote:
Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?
Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.boda wrote:It doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism particularly. We are a social species and have limited willpower.Malcolm wrote:This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.boda wrote:
Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.
Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Just out of curiosity, are you suggesting that you don't limit yourself?Malcolm wrote:You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.boda wrote:Just out of curiosity, are you suggesting that you don't limit yourself?Malcolm wrote:You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.Malcolm wrote: I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.
I don't know how mindful you are right now, but you're still posting!i am still mindfull...on my 10th phucking drink....
I haven't seen a ToS rule saying you can't post drunk...yet.i will probably be banned for just being honest......HA HA HA HA !!!!
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
And thus, you discovered your limitation.smcj wrote:Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.Malcolm wrote: I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.
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- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.Malcolm wrote:And thus, you discovered your limitation.smcj wrote:Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.Malcolm wrote: I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
It just shows at that point in your life you were lacking integration.smcj wrote:My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.Malcolm wrote:And thus, you discovered your limitation.smcj wrote: Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.
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- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
I think that would be safe to say.Malcolm wrote:It just shows at that point in your life you were lacking integration.smcj wrote:My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.Malcolm wrote:
And thus, you discovered your limitation.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
There are several Vajrayana teachers who wouldn't agree to a claim like this.Malcolm wrote:Yes, there is. It's called Vajrayāna.boda wrote:There's no "Buddhist paradigm" where alcohol doesn't negatively effect our nervous and endocrine systems.
Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
And had he determined the limit before hand all of that might have been avoided.Malcolm wrote:And thus, you discovered your limitation.smcj wrote:Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.Malcolm wrote: I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.