5 precepts. Alcohol?

[Malcolm]

It is not the anesthetic quality that is valued in Vajrayāna, but rather the conviviality that accompanies its consumption in small quantities.

Conviviality I had to look that up. Suffice to say that Vajrayāna values chemical dependencies over training?

Suffice to say that Vajrayāna recommends a middle way between abstinence and overindulgence.

[boda]

Effectively to this case I believe the middle way here is between training more or less diligently. No crime or sin, though perhaps a broken vow or promise, if such a vow were taken.

[Malcolm]

Effectively to this case I believe the middle way here is between training more or less diligently. No crime or sin, though perhaps a broken vow or promise, if such a vow were taken.

That vow, like all vows, exist for those who need them. Not all practitioners do.

[boda]

Not all practitioners are willing or able to.

[Malcolm]

Not all practitioners are willing or able to.

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

The way my Gelug teacher explained it to me is that simply abstaining from one of the negative actions is a non-action It is a zero. Whereas taking the vow and upholding it is meritorious and a cause for liberation. Arhats aren't just people that behave themselves.

[Malcolm]

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

The way my Gelug teacher explained it to me is that simply abstaining from one of the negative actions is a non-action It is a zero. Whereas taking the vow and upholding it is meritorious and a cause for liberation. Arhats aren't just people that behave themselves.

Right, i think that explanation is very limited in its understanding.

[boda]

Not all practitioners are willing or able to.

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.

Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.

[Malcolm]

Not all practitioners are willing or able to.

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.

Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.

This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.

[boda]

Why take a vow you don't need? For example, I dont kill anything, so of what use is the vow of refraining from taking life ffor me?

Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.

Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.

This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.

It doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism particularly. We are a social species and have limited willpower.

[Malcolm]

Circumstances may rise in the future where killing becomes an issue. In that case making a social promise could help to refrain. Assuming that the killing in this situation were serving selfish reasons and not to save a village or whatever.

Social promises can be powerful. Willpower can be weak.

This is a lower yana approach, appropriate for some, not for all.

It doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism particularly. We are a social species and have limited willpower.

You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.

[boda]

You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.

Just out of curiosity, are you suggesting that you don't limit yourself?

[Malcolm]

You go ahead and limit yourself all you want.

Just out of curiosity, are you suggesting that you don't limit yourself?

I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.

Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.

i am still mindfull...on my 10th phucking drink....

I don't know how mindful you are right now, but you're still posting!

i will probably be banned for just being honest......HA HA HA HA !!!!

I haven't seen a ToS rule saying you can't post drunk...yet.

[Malcolm]

I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.

Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.

And thus, you discovered your limitation.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.

Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.

And thus, you discovered your limitation.

My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.

[Malcolm]

Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.

And thus, you discovered your limitation.

My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.

It just shows at that point in your life you were lacking integration.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

And thus, you discovered your limitation.

My employers, credit cards, and landlord brought it to my attention. I thought I was doing ok until then.

It just shows at that point in your life you were lacking integration.

I think that would be safe to say.

[Ayu]

There's no "Buddhist paradigm" where alcohol doesn't negatively effect our nervous and endocrine systems.

Yes, there is. It's called Vajrayāna.

There are several Vajrayana teachers who wouldn't agree to a claim like this.

[boda]

I try to discover what my limitations are. But I don't make that determination before hand.

Speaking as someone that had to sober up 17 years ago, the problem with that strategy is that the first few drinks completely destroy your ability to gauge yourself. For instance, the number of people that would contest the validity of their drunk driving tickets dropped precipitously when the dashcams came into being. They really thought they weren't that drunk until they saw the video later from a sober perspective.

And thus, you discovered your limitation.

And had he determined the limit before hand all of that might have been avoided.