Your Earlist Memories

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby denny » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:29 pm

Early memories of life with only awareness are interesting to study, at least to me.

It seems "reaching" for older memories is easy with practice. How much older I don't know.

Do the sutras say you should not try to remember past life, or practice to remember, or try to retain?

I breath in and I breath out, but something remains, and all people change because of this.

:namaste:
denny
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories I breath in and I breath out, but

Postby Anders » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:29 am

denny wrote:Do the sutras say you should not try to remember past life, or practice to remember, or try to retain?


You'll find many modern teachers discouraging such a practise, but it's not an attitude I've seen in classical literature. The general attitude there seems to be one of 'if you know how, might as well explore it a bit, but don't linger'. Ie, it happens to practitioners and it's fine but it's no biggie or worth discussing in too much detail.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:35 am

denny wrote:Early memories of life with only awareness are interesting to study, at least to me.

It seems "reaching" for older memories is easy with practice. How much older I don't know.

Do the sutras say you should not try to remember past life, or practice to remember, or try to retain?

I breath in and I breath out, but something remains, and all people change because of this.

:namaste:



Then hold on to those memories, work them through, seek some kind of catharsis...and tell the membership in ten years how that has helped you overcome suffering.

:namaste:
Simon E.
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories I breath in and I breath out, but

Postby denny » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:38 pm

Anders wrote:
denny wrote:Do the sutras say you should not try to remember past life, or practice to remember, or try to retain?


You'll find many modern teachers discouraging such a practise, but it's not an attitude I've seen in classical literature. The general attitude there seems to be one of 'if you know how, might as well explore it a bit, but don't linger'. Ie, it happens to practitioners and it's fine but it's no biggie or worth discussing in too much detail.


I guess "explore it a bit, but don't linger" is where I've been.

Hi friend Anders. Thank you for your generous answer.

Once I discovered I could investigate deeper, thru experimentation, I decided to leave
those early memories (before the age of two or so) alone and undisturbed. I could
see little value in re-living these exploratory years, beyond what I already learned.

"and it's fine but it's no biggie or worth discussing in too much detail"
I don't remember reading of an instance described, but then I'm a newcomer.
denny
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby denny » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:49 pm

Simon E. wrote:
denny wrote:Early memories of life with only awareness are interesting to study, at least to me.

It seems "reaching" for older memories is easy with practice. How much older I don't know.

Do the sutras say you should not try to remember past life, or practice to remember, or try to retain?

I breath in and I breath out, but something remains, and all people change because of this.

:namaste:



Then hold on to those memories, work them through, seek some kind of catharsis...and tell the membership in ten years how that has helped you overcome suffering.

:namaste:


Thank you for your reply.

If you don't mind me asking: Why should I have to wait ten years?

Or was that an attempt at humor or sarcasm?

Or are you saying you suffer because of me and if I do not desist I will cause you to suffer more? I think this might be "it."

Please be as brutally honest as you are able. Thank you friend Simon E.
denny
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:05 pm

Neither humour nor sarcasm.

You see I don't think that recalling memories achieves anything very much.

I think we have inherited a cultural myth through a hundred novels and movies that is a hazy memory of Freud.
That myth says that if we can just recall traumatic or formative moments or episodes that we will have some kind of release from them.
I see no reason at all for believing that.
Most current therapies pay no attention at all to the events of childhood or other memories.
They start with the here and now.
They concentrate on the stories that we tell ourselves about our identity..and change those stories.
So, for example, if someone is experiencing repetitive feelings of sadness or failure, rather than asking how that happened, which is long ago and largely irrelevant, modern therapies work at catching ourselves doing that repetition, and doing something more positive instead.
Its both simple and hard. We have a lot invested in old pain.
Simon E.
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby denny » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:24 pm

Simon E. wrote:Neither humour nor sarcasm.

You see I don't think that recalling memories achieves anything very much.

I think we have inherited a cultural myth through a hundred novels and movies that is a hazy memory of Freud.
That myth says that if we can just recall traumatic or formative moments or episodes that we will have some kind of release from them.
I see no reason at all for believing that.
Most current therapies pay no attention at all to the events of childhood or other memories.
They start with the here and now.
They concentrate on the stories that we tell ourselves about our identity..and change those stories.
So, for example, if someone is experiencing repetitive feelings of sadness or failure, rather than asking how that happened, which is long ago and largely irrelevant, modern therapies work at catching ourselves doing that repetition, and doing something more positive instead.
Its both simple and hard. We have a lot invested in old pain.


Hello Simon (also my Father's name :smile: ).

"That myth says that if we can just recall traumatic or formative moments or episodes that we will have some kind of release from them.
I see no reason at all for believing that."

I agree, although I'd refer to it as a tired and worn out plot element; I don't know anyone who actually believes this to be true.

"Most current therapies"..... YES! You might enjoy reading Buddha's Brain by Rick Hanson and Richard Mendius. They explain in detail the process you describe.

You may not believe "recalling memories achieves anything very much" but is this based on personal exploration or stories by others? Maybe it depends on what you're looking for? If you go grasping for answers I doubt you'll find many.

But if you're only reviewing old pleasant memories you're only doing what we all do all the time. I don't believe the age of a memory has anything to do with it.

I believe we're in agreement that going backward to find answers is the wrong direction.
denny
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:02 pm

Its based on having been a therapist for a rather long time.

As well as during my own training being part of a Jungian group for three years. It was a course requirement back then.
Not so much now in most syllabi. All the Jungian and Freudian stuff has been largely retired..at least here in the UK.
Simon E.
 
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Re: Your Earlist Memories

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:14 pm

Actually all we need can be accessed through the here and now..
Which is good dharma as well as good therapy.
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