Poll on Faith in Sutras

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

I have faith that the sutras were taught by Buddha in some manner or form.

1 Yes
40
83%
2 No
8
17%
 
Total votes : 48

Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:44 pm

KeithBC wrote:
Will wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:What do you mean by "the sutras"?


Not me - the meaning will be determined by the reader.

So you intend the question to be:
I have faith that <something> was/were taught by <some entity or entities> in some manner or form.

That makes the question a bit meaningless, don't you think?

Om mani padme hum
Keith


If that is what it means to you - fine.

The simple, basic notion is for you to determine what it means to you; not to ponder the intent or meaning of the author.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:05 pm

Will wrote:The simple, basic notion is for you to determine what it means to you...
That COMPLETELY defeats its value as a poll then.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Maybe there should be a poll to determine what the this poll's question should have been.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:38 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Will wrote:The simple, basic notion is for you to determine what it means to you...
That COMPLETELY defeats its value as a poll then.


Really? When Gallup puts out a poll question is the first step for the respondent to question the intent and meaning of the poll query by asking Gallup to clarify, explain and justify? No. If one does not like the words of the poll, then do not participate.

If some folk here are paralyzed by the wording with only two choices, yet others are able to respond - why is that?
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Ayu » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Will wrote:If some folk here are paralyzed by the wording with only two choices, yet others are able to respond - why is that?

Because people are different. :smile:

I find it very honest to say: the Buddha is what ever you think the Buddha is. :namaste:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:32 pm

Really? When Gallup puts out a poll question is the first step for the respondent to question the intent and meaning of the poll query by asking Gallup to clarify, explain and justify? No. If one does not like the words of the poll, then do not participate.
No, the first step before asking the question is to ensure that the meaning of the question is obvious. Then you ask the question.

If somebody asked me: who do you believe should be the next president of the USA: A or B, and I did not agree with either (or any) candidate then I would refuse to answer the question (though sometimes they give a third option: C None of the above). The question is clear though. I don't need to ask: what do you mean by president? Where is the USA? etc...

This "I have faith that the sutras were taught by Buddha in some manner or form." is just WAY too vague for a number of reasons:
1. taught by Buddha. The Buddha or a Buddha?
2. the sutras. Suttas too? Tantras? All the Sutra? What about Canonical texts (Sutra and Sutta) that have a known author/teacher other than the historical Buddha? You mean like the whole Canon?
3. etc...

I answered "No" and gave the example of the Platform Sutra. If I knew Sutta were included I would give the example of a number of Sutta taught by Sariputa, etc... Sutra taught by Bodhisattvas. Tantras taught by Sambogakaya Buddhas.

The question is unclear, so that makes the results irrelevant.

Now if you started the poll just to get people discussing, fair enough. This still makes the results of the poll itself invalid.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:25 pm

Yet, Sherab Dorje says the poll results are invalid but still responds. Minds do have vast realms of tendencies!
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:27 pm

Ayu:
the Buddha is what ever you think the Buddha is.


Or perhaps "the Buddha is to you what ever you think the Buddha is."
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:43 pm

Will wrote:Yet, Sherab Dorje says the poll results are invalid but still responds. Minds do have vast realms of tendencies!
They are invalid for the purposes of statistical veracity, not invalid in general. And what exactly is a "vast realm of tendency"???
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:54 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Will wrote:Yet, Sherab Dorje says the poll results are invalid but still responds. Minds do have vast realms of tendencies!
They are invalid for the purposes of statistical veracity, not invalid in general. And what exactly is a "vast realm of tendency"???


Vasanas: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vāsanā[/url]
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Ayu » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:28 am

Will wrote:Ayu:
the Buddha is what ever you think the Buddha is.


Or perhaps "the Buddha is to you what ever you think the Buddha is."


I agree. Especially because of my experience of many discussions with people who wanted to tell me what is the Buddha and what he is not. Such discussions make no sense.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:26 pm

Ayu wrote:I agree. Especially because of my experience of many discussions with people who wanted to tell me what is the Buddha and what he is not. Such discussions make no sense.
What or who?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Ayu » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:36 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Ayu wrote:I agree. Especially because of my experience of many discussions with people who wanted to tell me what is the Buddha and what he is not. Such discussions make no sense.
What or who?

Sorry, my English is too poor to distinguish this.
I know a very small group of fanatic primal-theravada-buddhists, who consider only the historical person Gautamo Buddho as "Buddha" and him they consider as dead now - but his speeches from the palicanon they take as direct recorded words... (No comment 8-) )
I thought of these people when writing the posting above.
They call tibetean buddhism as "adhamma" and they don't understand what I mean when I say "Buddha".
For me, personally, "Buddha" is the energy/mind of enlightment.
Clear? :smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:06 pm

Will wrote:Yet, Sherab Dorje says the poll results are invalid but still responds. Minds do have vast realms of tendencies!
They are invalid for the purposes of statistical veracity, not invalid in general. And what exactly is a "vast realm of tendency"???


Vasanas: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vāsanā[/url]
Okay, like samskara. So, if I considered the poll results valid, does that mean I will not have "vast realms of tendencies"?

And why are you talking to me in the third person, when you are replying to me, in regards to one of my statements directed towards you?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:02 pm

82 % so far - which is good for the Dharma and good for the cultivation of that 82% :bow:
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:05 pm

Will there be a scantily clad sex bomb to give out the medals to the winners? :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:11 pm

Go home team! Booooo... to the losers!

Mahayana at its best! :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Will » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:35 pm

The winners will be those practitioners whose minds are clean, blissful, wise, powerful and compassionate. A larger group of winners will be those many beings whose multiple forms of suffering are reduced by the influence of the Dharma cultivators.

The losers will be those whose cultivation has produced little or nothing of benefit to themselves or others.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby dzogchungpa » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:40 pm

Maybe you two should get a room.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Poll on Faith in Sutras

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:41 pm

Or a ring! :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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