Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:21 pm

I didn't want to interrupt the "Perennialism" thread by going further off topic, so I made this thread. Sorry if it's out of context. I find these things interesting because I think "far right" spirituality (my own view of course) is a great example of one the weird, ugly directions that seemingly noble ideals can lead. Obviously they exist on the other side too with Stalinism, Maoism, and some would argue Leninism etc.

Julius Evola was hardly an incidental fascist, maybe you could call him a far-right anarchist who happened to circumstantially voice some criticism of other fascists...not like that was uncommon, they spent as much time conspiring against one another as Stalinists etc...The idea that he was or is "apolitical" does not play out, including simply by examining those that have been heavily influenced by him today.

The whole "apolitical" thing is central to third way ideology, it's about waging a cultural "war of position" instead of one that is based just on overt political ideology. Fascism was as much a cultural/art/esoteric movement as it was an overt political philosophy..in fact there wasn't really a unified political philosophy behind fascism anyway. Far right ideology is a large span of stuff, from the SS to the Brownshirts to the early days of Earth First and some forms of "Green Anarchism"...it is not one unified way of thinking, but a tendency.

Here's an interesting Umberto Eco piece on "Ur Fascism".

http://65.99.230.10:81/collect/politics ... ir/doc.pdf

It's worth thinking about from a Buddhist perspective, because for so many of the kind of "proto fascists" in the area of esoteric studies, the idea of a Kali Yuga or a Dark Age of some sort and a return to a kind of cultural and/or racial Golden Age and regeneration was a big deal. That is of course not to say the idea itself, or people believing in it is fascist, it's just interesting because it is an idea (just like some of the results of Marxist beliefs) that ends in some very bad things, both being based on the idea of history being something which can sort of be permanently manipulated into a "better" result.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 pm

I will always assert that in many ways, Buddhism is a far right worldview.

It teaches that the world is full of increasing darkness and that only a return to the Golden Age of the distant past will be of lasting benefit. Or as Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel put it when asked about who he wanted to win the last American election: "It doesn't matter".

This is reactionary to the extreme and reactionarism is technically far right.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Grigoris » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:11 pm

Define right and left first and then this discussion can actually begin to make some sense.

Fascism and Nazism can be left wing (National Socialism) or right wing (Corporatism).

So are we talking right vs left, or authoritarian vs libertarian, or socialist vs free market, statist vs individualist, conservative vs revolutionary, reactionary vs rebellious, or...?

Define terms, first, then tear each others throats out.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:51 pm

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:17 am

Attachments
2d-political-spectrum.png
2d-political-spectrum.png (7.98 KiB) Viewed 2467 times
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby kirtu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:11 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby kirtu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:22 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:40 am

JD interesting essay.

The "proletariat as messiah" idea is kind of a libertarian critique I suppose.

I am reading some history of Britain at the moment.

The Tories preferred "God, king and country".

And many Whigs were sympathetic to "liberté, égalité, fraternité".

But maybe the real political solution is "three acres and a cow":

Image

User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:55 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby kirtu » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:24 am



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:54 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:05 am

Evola might have been fascist or had fascist tendencies, but the key point about the 'philosophical traditionalists' (including Guenon, Schuon, Burkhardt, Coomaraswamy and others) is rejection of key aspects of 'modernity'. This is based, as noted above, on the underlying idea that ours is a 'degenerate age', expressed in mythological terminology as 'kali yuga'. I don't know if that idea is literally true but I am sure it captures a profound truth about the modern world through mythological language.

That said, I am sure there are many things that modern thinking takes for granted, or simply assumes about the world, which would be deeply inimical to traditional Buddhism as much as any other traditional philosophy.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:40 am

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:09 am

Well, if there are legitimate grounds for traditional philosophy to reject aspects of modernity, does this mean that such criticism can necessarily be charachterized as 'fascist'?

I have always had a sneaking thought that a major aim of modern liberal democracies is to 'make the world a safe place for the ignorant'. I suppose that is a very provocative thing to say, but I still think there is something in it. Modern individualism, even though it has good points, and even though the safeguarding of individual rights is important, often puts the individual ego in the position of being 'law unto itself'. Individual proclivities, attitudes and inclinations are put into a higher position than moral principles. This is epitomized by the 'greed is good' side of capitalist economies and the exploitation of the drive for pleasure as the basis of much economic activity.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:50 am

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Grigoris » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:57 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:00 am

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7106
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:33 am

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Red Faced Buddha
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:16 am
Location: The Middle of Nowhere

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby Red Faced Buddha » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:18 am

Evola was an interesting fellow. Most of the Esoteric Fascist (or Nazis, in the case of Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano.) are an interesting bunch, bizarre and perhaps a little whacky, but they bring along a few interesting ideas.
A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."
I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Julius Evola, Radical Traditionalism, and Ur Fascism

Postby smcj » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:40 am

Don't take me too seriously.


Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests