is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion, cal

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paganbuddha
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is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion, cal

Postby paganbuddha » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:37 pm


paganbuddha
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby paganbuddha » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:10 pm

further proof from
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... nd_Jainism" target="_blank

No creator god
- There is no creator god in Jainism.
- There is no creator god in Buddhism.

No creation myth
- There is no creation myth in Jainism, a first beginning is not knowable.
- There is no creation myth in Buddhism, a first beginning is not knowable.

Previous founders
- Mahavira was not the founder, but rather the re-discoverer of the truth according to Jainism.
- Buddha was not the founder, but rather the re-discoverer of the truth according to Buddhism.

24 prior teachers
- According to Jainism there are 24 known tirthankaras who discovered the truth after a time when the teachings were lost.
- According to Buddhism (Buddhavamsa) there were 24 previous Buddhas who discovered the truth (plus 3 in prehistoric times and Gotama-Buddha for a total of 28.

Warrior caste

- Mahavira was born into the ksatriya caste (warrior caste).
- Buddha was born into the ksatriya caste (warrior caste).

Siddhatha
- Mahavira was born to a ksatriyan chief named Siddhatha.
- Buddha was to a ksatriyan chief and Buddha's birth name was Siddhatha.

Yasoda
- Mahavira married a woman named Yasoda.
- Buddha married a woman named Yasoda.

One child
- Mahavira had one child (a daughter).
- Buddha had one child (a son).

Height of 6 feet
- It is reported that Mahavira was 6 feet tall (1.83m)
- It is reported that Buddha was 6 feet tall (1.83m)

Enlightenment under a tree
- Mahavira renounced the world at age 20 attained enlightenment under a tree at 28 and lived to 72 years.
- Buddha renounced the world at age 29 attained enlightenment under a tree at 35 and lived to 80 years.

Asceticism
- Mahavira practiced asceticism toward enlightenment.
- Buddha practiced asceticism toward / prior to enlightenment.

Dharma Shramana
- Jainism is in the Dharma category of religions that practice Shramana, which includes forms of renunciation and mental purification.
- Buddhism is in the Dharma category of religions that practice Shramana, which includes forms of renunciation and mental purification.

Yellow
- The color yellow is associated with Mahavira
- The color yellow is associated with Buddha (he wore yellow robes) and yellow is a common color in Buddhist temples

Rejection of caste
- Jainism rejects caste distinctions based on birth.
- Buddhism rejects caste distinctions based on birth.

5 precepts
- There are 5 great vows or precepts in Jainism.
- There are 5 primary precepts in Buddhism.

First Precept of Ahimsa
- The first precept in Jainism is Ahimsa (non-violence), which extends to all living beings.
- The first precept in Buddhism is to not kill, which extends to all living beings.

Second precept
- A second precept in Jainism is Satya (truthfulness).
- A second precept in Buddhism is truthfulness.

Third precept

- A third precept in Jainism is Asteya (not stealing).
- A third precept in Buddhism is not stealing.

Fourth precept
- A fourth precept in Jainism is Brahmacharya (celibacy for monks and nuns no sexual misconduct for lay people).
- A fourth precept in Buddhism is to refrain from sexual misconduct (celibacy for monks and nuns).

Fifth precept
- A fifth precept in Jainism in is Aparigraha non-materialism, non-attachment to material things.
- A fifth precept in Buddhism is refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness. (The only precept of the 5 which is somewhat different, but not completely different since the Buddhist version is also calling for no attachment.)

Fourfold assembly

- Mahavira instituted a fourfold assembly of monks, nuns, lay men, and lay women.
- Buddha instituted a fourfold assembly of monks, nuns, lay men, and lay women.

Nirvana (Nibbana)

- Jainism teaches that one must undergo pure conduct, practice meditation and attain enlightenment, release from rebirth.
- Buddhism teaches that one must undergo pure conduct, practice meditation and attain enlightenment, release from rebirth.

The other shore
- In Jainism the tirthankaras are known as ford-makers, who have crossed the river of samsara and rebirth.
- In Buddhism the simile of crossing the ocean to the other shore is frequently used to describe enlightenment, nibbana.

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kirtu
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:15 pm

Shakyamuni and Mahavira were contemporaries. In a sense you are right that Buddhism "evolved" from Jainism (although this is not actually correct) - Shakyamuni states in the Pali suttas that he was a Jain adherent for many lifetimes with the difference between himself and other Jains was in his scrupulous attention to karmic consequences.

But during Buddha did not create his Dharma out of Jainism nor is Buddhism an evolution of Jainism.

Kirt


"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Grigoris » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:21 pm

It would be truer to say that it grew out of "Hinudism" (which predated Buddhism and Jainism) rather than Jainism since they (Buddhism and Jainism) both developed around the same time.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

paganbuddha
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby paganbuddha » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:23 pm


paganbuddha
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby paganbuddha » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:26 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Grigoris » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:34 pm

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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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kirtu
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:40 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:25 pm

Karma is also a completely different thing in Jainism than it is in either Hinduism or Buddhism.

both are the surviving remnants of the shramanic tradition, but I wouldn't say Buddhism "came from" it, in fact if I recall the communities were contemporaries.
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_username_
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby _username_ » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:37 pm

Possibly, the civilization at the time probably practiced a religion.

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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby DGA » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:48 pm


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Huifeng
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Huifeng » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:54 am

Threads like this are why we need to pay proper attention to both history and a historical-critical approach to texts.

~~ Huifeng


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Indrajala
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Indrajala » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:45 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Aemilius
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Aemilius » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:45 am

svaha

Son of Buddha
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:00 pm


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Aemilius
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Aemilius » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:17 pm

svaha

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kirtu
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby kirtu » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:27 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Aemilius
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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Aemilius » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:45 am

I don't think "ridicules" is far from it, Buddha Shakyamuni may not have always been "a nice person", is what comes to my mind.
Muluposatha sutta: The Roots of Uposatha

I think I know the sutta you may have in mind, in it a King converts to buddhism, Buddha then requests him not to cease providing food for the jain monks also.
svaha

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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby plwk » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:15 pm


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Re: is Buddhism an evolved form of another ancient religion,

Postby Nemo » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:20 pm

Hinduism contains the remnants of the teaching of the previous Buddha of the age, Kashyapa. When Maitreya comes there may be relics of Buddhism, but it seems unlikely as things will be very bad in the world then. When one is more fully involved Buddhism is not a religion. It is simply the truth about reality. No one gets to own that. It's all just a trick to get you to see reality.

The big difference is the final goal. Jains want to go to heaven. Buddha saw through this. After aeons in the Heaven of the 33 one falls back to the lower realms. In those realms bad decisions and bad karma are very easy to accumulate. The endless cycle of existence grinds on and on. So He gave many of the same tools but with a very different motivation. Merit calms the mind and allows one glimpses of reality(wisdom). Then a self referral loop of skillful means and wisdom accumulates the necessary karmic ground for liberation.

One uses the techniques as a medicine. The other just to get high.


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