Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Races

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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby gyougan » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:17 pm

evilwestslavemaster wrote:
tobes wrote:
evilwestslavemaster wrote:There is like 500 visitors to this forum daily, the most popular English-speaking Buddhist forum on the web and its rank in the US is 209,322

Facebook has 60,000,000 visitors daily and its rank in the US is number 2.

500/60,000,000 = 0.000083%.

So there is only 0.000083% of facebook visitors who are even remotely interested in Western Buddhism. What do the stats tell you?


That your mathematics is incorrect.

Suppose that this site had 60,000,000 visitors daily. Then, by your reasoning,

60,000,000/60,000,000 = 100%

of Facebook users would be at least "remotely interested" in Western Buddhism.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby byamspa » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:05 pm

:popcorn:

Hey, no one told me the soaps channel had moved! Someone pass the Diet Coke!
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:45 pm

For sure "The West", it's ideologies and systems have been and are responsible for their share of awful things. However as Padma mentions, it's all too easy for dictators, despots, and all around doers-of-bad to turn around and just say "oh we had to do it, the US/Colonial Powers/Whoever made us".

I'm still curious as to where on this board the OP saw anything like what he mentioned, seems like a total strawman to me.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby undefineable » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:55 am

Konchog1 wrote:Perhaps some illuminating quotations:

“Anything which is a living and not a dying body will have to be an incarnate will to power, it will strive to grow, spread, seize, become predominant - not from any morality or immorality but because it is living and because life simply is the will to power. 'Exploitation' belongs to the essence of what lives, as a basic organic function; it is a consequence of the will to power, which is after all the will to life.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, s.259

“To speak of just or unjust in itself is quite senseless; in itself, of course, no injury, assault, exploitation, destruction can be 'unjust,' since life operates essentially, that is in its basic functions, through injury, assault, exploitation, destruction and simply cannot be thought of at all without this character. One must indeed grant something even more unpalatable: that, from the highest biological standpoint, legal conditions can never be other than exceptional conditions, since they constitute a partial restriction of the will of life, which is bent upon power, and are subordinate to its total goal as a single means: namely, as a means of creating greater units of power. A legal order thought of as sovereign and universal, not as a means in the struggle between power complexes but as a means of preventing all struggle in general meaning that every will must consider every other will its equal—would be a principle hostile to life, an agent of the dissolution and destruction of man, an attempt to assassinate the future of man, a sign of weariness, a secret path to nothingness.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, 2:11


"I don't like the current world order. Therefore, the current world order is evil." What is this if not selfish?

:twothumbsup: 4ur Nietzsche quotes

I get the point you're trying to make - it irritates me that Buddhism in the west seems to attract leftwing extremism.

Nietzsche was also pointing out that much of what is normally thought of as evil is actually beneficial -in the medium term- to its individual agents, much as it may harm others. Since Uncle Fred's day, civilisation as a means of organising human creativity has often appeared to make such 'necessary evils' unnecessary, but with the decline of the USSR (despite its own unnecessary evil) came the decline of the idea of the 'mixed economy' in the west, leading (particularly via the resulting de-regulation of financial markets) to the mess we're now in. Meanwhile, the rise of 'sweatshop Asia' (since China's rulers successfully decided to replicate the west's Industrial Revolution with the aid of ready-made foreign buyers) triggered the return of the 'slave labour' conditions that western societies had long since put behind them. I don't even mean to sound 'centre-left' here, as the conditions that prevailed in the west between the collapse of the Third Reich and the collapse of the Soviet empire -e.g. jobs in all conceivable fields that barely even selected applicants- were surely fit only for children rather than adults. {It was also only a matter of time before having a 'safety net' for able-bodied adults of working age turned in many cases -such as in the UK's 'Chav culture'- into having a 'comfort blanket' or even a 'steady basic income', via its corrosive effects on values like self-reliance.} So, with the world and humans as they are, relative happiness is built on the use of some people by other people, and even when civilisation rises above this to a more-level 'playing field', its roots lie either in a murkier past or in a murkier present elsewhere (and that's before anyone starts on meat :stirthepot: :toilet: ).

Nonetheless, your quotes sit uneasily with Buddhism -albeit not (I'm sure) with actual enlightenment- as they support a view that actions which affect others negatively -not actions that affect them positively- bring 'positive' results for an individual's life, and -more to the point- as they're actually informed by some limited understanding of Buddhism. Nietzsche became aware of Buddhism via Schopenhauer, who had popularised a concept of it in terms that directly led Nietzsche to see it (ultimately) as just another 'secret path to nothingness'. Being the consummate intellectual/artist/teenager that he clearly was, Nietzsche seems to have aimed to prove his forebears -particularly Schopenhauer- misguided despite lacking the nous to look beyond the paradigms they'd operated within. It would be more interesting, then, to discuss how a "Schopenhauerian" understanding of Buddhism (which one might call "leftwing extremist meets reality") is faulty, or maybe whether it can only be applied to the first two noble truths rather than all of the teachings.

If what we'd be best off 'saved' or 'liberated' from is the idea of self, what does that leave? It's hard to be consoled with the idea that all the best that anyone can get from samsara has already been experienced in past lives - especially when there's no memories. Maybe that's why it's advised (I can't remember where) to approach the dharma after first having experienced all possible peaks of fulfilment in this life and then seen its dukkha nature - like the writer of the biblical book of Ecclesiastes or (better) the Buddha himself. I don't believe it's all just 'useless samsara', and although I'm guessing the dividing line becomes clearer with realisation, there seem to be a lot of elements underpinning our broader western understanding of human life -e.g. vigour, focus, or intuitive understanding- that are not only self-evidently positive in themselves but which are also encouraged in the Buddhist teachings. On the other hand, if every conceivable aspect of 'life itself' is inevitably nothing but suffering and/or its own destruction (except for the fittest of the fit - who themselves inevitably become 'unfit' in old age and death) then there's no conceivable path to follow.
Last edited by undefineable on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby undefineable » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:11 am

evilwestslavemaster wrote:The Japanese has invented a car which run on water in 2009 but the project was shut down because American Oil MNCs do not want their source of revenue to be disrupted.

Source please
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:30 am

evilwestslavemaster wrote: Which country in the world nowadays boast of a culture of enlightenment? Which country in the world imposes a requirement on its children and young to meditate? Which country in the world has banned alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, meat and prostitution?

I don't know of any spiritually-liberated dictatorships.
But you might enjoy Bhutan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:35 am

evilwestslavemaster wrote: The American Culture has NO element of Enlightenment at all. Let's all be frank here.

Let's all be Franklin Roosevelt.

The separation of church and state
is the most revolutionary and enlightened political move in the last 237 years.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:48 am

evilwestslavemaster wrote: Everyone, every country in the world nowadays aspire to have the type of "Western" suburbia lifestyle of a good job, happy marriage and loving kids but this is just Maya controlling the world.

Everyone but you.
So are you saying that you want a crappy job,
you want to be in a terrible relationship,
and you want kids who hate you?
Well, good luck with that.
I don't think you know what you want,
but if you do, it would be nice if you'd share that
because so far, it sounds rather bleak.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby muni » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:30 am

evilwestslavemaster wrote:People living in the West are just about as greedy and selfish as people living in the East.

Greed, selfishness, lust and other aspects of sins are traits inherent in the whole of humanity and do not belong to just one specific race.


Buddha saw 'the world' was not okay.
:soapbox: Since you talk about compassion, there is no suffering coming other than from suffering. All harmful action are by suffering beings caught in delusion. Therefore practice by Buddha's teachings helps to act through that compassion you was talking about, and not to suffer ourselves by judging others.
To hope others will make the world a fine place, that we all do :smile: and so it doesn't happen. :zzz:

The head slave master is the one we should see to eliminate suffering: clinging to the idea to protect and please ourselves. I think that is why Dharma masters show us generosity with Dharma without any selfconcern.
Should say, there is no inherent badness but suffering delusion.

While to write your concern here can be a bell. :namaste:
Last edited by muni on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby wisdom » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:33 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
evilwestslavemaster wrote: Everyone, every country in the world nowadays aspire to have the type of "Western" suburbia lifestyle of a good job, happy marriage and loving kids but this is just Maya controlling the world.

Everyone but you.
So are you saying that you want a crappy job,
you want to be in a terrible relationship,
and you want kids who hate you?
Well, good luck with that.
I don't think you know what you want,
but if you do, it would be nice if you'd share that
because so far, it sounds rather bleak.
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Not to mention the millions of westerners who have a crappy job, are in a terrible relationship, and have kids that hate them. Suffering is everywhere, slavery is a matter of degree. Although I acknowledge my conditions are FANTASTIC compared to most of the worlds, still I am a wage slave. I am not living a lavish life. I do not have a large savings. I have no health insurance, no car, and to save money I often walk 3 miles home from work (which is no big deal, but still). I acknowledge also that many of my products I can only have because of slave labor, and I would be happy to pay more for them and have them have better conditions to work in. I would be happy to have less things if it meant improved conditions for everyone. I like to think there are others like me who would do the same. But I am not these corporations, I don't make the rules, I can't control their money. Unfortunately I also can't afford hand crafted clothes for example, as often its like 50$ for a t-shirt and far more for pants, coats and shoes that are made by hand by some guy down the street.

Keep in mind also that a large amount of the corruption has to do with greed. Its not that I buy a cell phone made by a sweat shop and I alone am evil for it. We have to consider the big-wigs who are taking millions of dollars in bonuses, and what that money could do for the people living in those conditions. How far does a million dollars go in a third world country anyways? How could it improve the living and working conditions of the people who work for these massive corporations? Why is nobody doing this with their wealth?

In essence, why are people with wealth not sharing it with others? Why don't they care? I doubt there are many millionaires or billionaires on this forum who can answer that question. But when you think about it, you need about 5 million USD to live comfortably for the rest of your life at this point. What do people who are worth 20 billion dollars SPEND their money on? Useless crap, frivolous crap. Yachts, huge mansions, 2 million dollar cars, gold toilets. A bunch of BS. Then they die and its all worth nothing, they die alone, afraid, confused, deluded, and their family fights over what they leave behind. Its all very sad.
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby Nosta » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:20 pm

byamspa wrote::popcorn:

Hey, no one told me the soaps channel had moved! Someone pass the Diet Coke!

:rolling:
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Re: Western Slave Masters' Enslavement of Other Countries/Ra

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:26 pm

wisdom wrote: In essence, why are people with wealth not sharing it with others? Why don't they care?

Take a look at this:
http://philanthropy.com/article/A-Look- ... ous/137245
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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