Perspective

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Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:40 pm

elephant perspectives 6.jpg
elephant perspectives 6.jpg (266 KiB) Viewed 819 times
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:55 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
elephant perspectives 6.jpg



You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
elephant perspectives 6.jpg



You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?


he so smart! How come nobody listen to him?
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:02 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
elephant perspectives 6.jpg



You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?


he so smart! How come nobody listen to him?



I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:05 pm

Malcolm wrote:I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.


oh, then he not as smart as I thought....
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?

Is that actually known for a fact?
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:06 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?

Is that actually known for a fact?



Yes.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:07 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.


oh, then he not as smart as I thought....



Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:11 pm

Malcolm wrote:Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.


oops. you walked right into that one! Perennialism says that all religions are expressing the same universal truth. My graphix clearly shows that the various religions (as well as science) are all different, partial perspectives on the nature of reality.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:32 am

Just out of curiousity, by what is it known for sure that this parable is the words of the Buddha, and not a staple analogy of his times? I was under the impression that this was an old Indian story, of uncertain origin that was attributed to the Buddha, and many other sources.
"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits
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Re: Perspective

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:38 am

Well, it occurs, e.g., here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.6.04.irel.html
I'm not quite sure how it could be established that it originated with the Buddha though. It's also very much a Jain kind of story.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:01 am

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.


oops. you walked right into that one! Perennialism says that all religions are expressing the same universal truth. My graphix clearly shows that the various religions (as well as science) are all different, partial perspectives on the nature of reality.


No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:12 am

dzogchungpa wrote:Well, it occurs, e.g., here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.6.04.irel.html
I'm not quite sure how it could be established that it originated with the Buddha though. It's also very much a Jain kind of story.



Right I know there's a few places with the analogy, or similar analogies...to me though, that could just as easily argue in favor of the story being extant already, since that's sure the case with plenty of other such stuff in the Pal Canon.
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Re: Perspective

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:14 am

ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:58 am

Malcolm wrote:No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.


there is a fundamental difference between saying that all religions are expressing the same truth, and saying that all human conceptual systems (religious as well as secular science and philosophy) are inherently limited, metaphorical attempts to describe something that is beyond categories and definitions. Perennialism is always couched in language like "all religions are one" and emphasizes similarities among religions and so-called mystical experiences. What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:06 am

gad rgyangs wrote:What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda

Anekantavada is, without a doubt, the only correct view.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Perspective

Postby Virgo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:21 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda

Anekantavada is, without a doubt, the only correct view.

:rolling:
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:25 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.


there is a fundamental difference between saying that all religions are expressing the same truth, and saying that all human conceptual systems (religious as well as secular science and philosophy) are inherently limited, metaphorical attempts to describe something that is beyond categories and definitions. Perennialism is always couched in language like "all religions are one" and emphasizes similarities among religions and so-called mystical experiences. What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda


Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Perspective

Postby gad rgyangs » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.


one person's eel wriggling is another person's intellectual honesty.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
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Re: Perspective

Postby Malcolm » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:09 pm

gad rgyangs wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.


one person's eel wriggling is another person's intellectual honesty.



Yes, it is good to be honest about one's views, even if it amounts to eel wriggling.

That said, I go by the dictum uttered by Āryadeva, realization proceeds from view. And of course the basis of the Buddhist path is samyakdṛṣtī as you know.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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