dzogchungpa wrote:What wisdom and discrimination?Mkoll wrote:Follow your wisdom and discrimination.dzogchungpa wrote:And when the texts contradict?
Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Buddhists think so, in general.Karma Dorje wrote: Mahadeva is of course a dharmapala, but it's really not so simple to say that this is the being whom Hindus practice.
- conebeckham
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- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Crazywisdom wrote: The Kagyu teachers I follow never even taught me to visualize a channel and I have complete six Yogas transmission, the channels are taken for granted and you just visualize lights in places. I like lights.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- Karma Dorje
- Posts: 1410
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
I don't dispute that many Tibetan Buddhists think so. I just don't think it is true. There are many aspects of Siva that are not represented in the dharmapala Mahadeva that are instead represented in Avalokitesvara, Mahakala, Kalacakra, etc. and some of these aspects of Siva are very different in each tradition yet have a clear identity such as Hanuman/Mahakala.Malcolm wrote:Buddhists think so, in general.Karma Dorje wrote: Mahadeva is of course a dharmapala, but it's really not so simple to say that this is the being whom Hindus practice.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
-Padmasambhava
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Shiva is considered to be an emanation of Avalokiteśvara. The only Mahākāla who is an emanation of Avalokiteśvara is the six arm form.Karma Dorje wrote:I don't dispute that many Tibetan Buddhists think so. I just don't think it is true. There are many aspects of Siva that are not represented in the dharmapala Mahadeva that are instead represented in Avalokitesvara, Mahakala, Kalacakra, etc. and some of these aspects of Siva are very different in each tradition yet have a clear identity such as Hanuman/Mahakala.Malcolm wrote:Buddhists think so, in general.Karma Dorje wrote: Mahadeva is of course a dharmapala, but it's really not so simple to say that this is the being whom Hindus practice.
But it cannot be denied that the Dharmapāla Shiva's consort is Umadevi.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
So, if the central channel is physical, does it follow the curve of the spine or is it straight? Because I had the impression that when visualising it, one must visualise it as being straight, rather than curved.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
The central channel really has nothing to do with the spine. The central channel is in the middle of the body, not the rear.Zhen Li wrote:So, if the central channel is physical, does it follow the curve of the spine or is it straight? Because I had the impression that when visualising it, one must visualise it as being straight, rather than curved.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
My name is Sam. So no one can understand the texts without an oral transmission lineage. Many terms are not what they seem.Malcolm wrote:You have your way, paul, ii have mine.Crazywisdom wrote:No. You have to choose a teacher with a lineage. NNR had many great teachers, but CCD is the one he relies on to settle the contradictions.Malcolm wrote:
Follow the texts.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
conebeckham wrote:Crazywisdom wrote: The Kagyu teachers I follow never even taught me to visualize a channel and I have complete six Yogas transmission, the channels are taken for granted and you just visualize lights in places. I like lights.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Ok, Sam.Crazywisdom wrote:
My name is Sam.
If you say so.Many terms are not what they seem.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Je Mila said the central channel is primordially pure. So it can't be an organ.Zhen Li wrote:Ah, that makes more sense.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Like wisdom wind. It doesn't move, does it?Malcolm wrote:Ok, Sam.Crazywisdom wrote:
My name is Sam.
If you say so.Many terms are not what they seem.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
And in Kalacakra, the Buddha said the lower end of central channel is the rectum, so it must be an organ.Crazywisdom wrote:Je Mila said the central channel is primordially pure. So it can't be an organ.Zhen Li wrote:Ah, that makes more sense.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
The Buddha, in the Vajramāla states "jn̄ānavayu" is a name for the emptiness of the vayus in general.Crazywisdom wrote:Like wisdom wind. It doesn't move, does it?Malcolm wrote:Ok, Sam.Crazywisdom wrote:
My name is Sam.
If you say so.Many terms are not what they seem.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
If that's the transmission you follow. You can't just mix and match what fits your materialist preferences.Malcolm wrote:And in Kalacakra, the Buddha said the lower end of central channel is the rectum, so it must be an organ.Crazywisdom wrote:Je Mila said the central channel is primordially pure. So it can't be an organ.Zhen Li wrote:Ah, that makes more sense.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Like wisdom wind. It doesn't move, does it?[/quote]If you say so.Many terms are not what they seem.
The Buddha, in the Vajramāla states "jn̄ānavayu" is a name for the emptiness of the vayus in general.[/quote]
So does it move?
Last edited by Natan on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
It has nothing to do with materialism. The process of the development of the channels in the body is precisely described in Kalacakra, Cakrasamvara, sgra thal gyur tantra and many others. Channels are physical structures through which flow vāyu and bindu.Crazywisdom wrote:
If that's the transmission you follow. You can't just mix and match what fits your materialist preferences.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Organs aren't primordially pure? Really? Are you sure about that?Crazywisdom wrote:Je Mila said the central channel is primordially pure. So it can't be an organ.Zhen Li wrote:Ah, that makes more sense.
Re: Dr. Sanderson: Phowa etc. are directly from Saivism
Yes, wisdom vāyus move. There is one every thirty third breath cycle.Crazywisdom wrote:
So does it move?