ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

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ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Nosta » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:52 pm

Have you ever speak about wander meditation?

It seems to be more effective than breath meditation:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ating.html

Which are the Mayahana or Theravada practices that focus "wandering meditation"?

Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Jikan » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:15 pm

Nosta wrote:
Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.


better by what measure? for what purpose? by whom?

I don't see anything in the article arguing that the methods the scientists have come up with are better for the purpose of emptying samsara than anything practiced by Buddhists.
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:03 pm

It depends on what they mean by "letting your mind wander", and of course, what they consider better really has nothing to do with the aims of meditation from a Buddhist perspective.

You can let your mind wander and watch the thoughts pass, and that is different from interacting with discursive thought as your mind wanders..I wasn't clear that they even made this distinction. I also have never seen (I know they may exist, just haven't seen them) a "concentrative" meditation that involved "emptying the head" of thoughts, many teachings caution against that.

Basically they might be describing something like Mahamudra or Trekcho type meditation, there are Zen teachings that emphasize letting thoughts pass as well.. but these people's understanding of the techniques is so limited by their search for reduced, discrete results that their conclusions don't seem that useful to me.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:09 pm

http://www.acem.com/acem_sites/acem_com/the_method" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem to have their own site...

In Acem Meditation, you repeat a meditation sound mentally without effort, while thoughts and impressions are allowed to come and go freely. There is no attempt at emptying the mind.


Yeah, no one has ever seen a method like this before :thinking: :thinking:

Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.


Huh? There are tons of meditations of this sort, they are not even remotely unusual ..to start with Vajrayana has many techniques that are like this..and even some instructions on Zazen are similar to this, minus the sound.

To be frank, the selling point of this is probably not the meditation, so much as it is the scientific and "ideology free" meditation claim, which I personally find dubious.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Inge » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:53 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:http://www.acem.com/acem_sites/acem_com/the_method" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem to have their own site...

In Acem Meditation, you repeat a meditation sound mentally without effort, while thoughts and impressions are allowed to come and go freely. There is no attempt at emptying the mind.


Yeah, no one has ever seen a method like this before :thinking: :thinking:

Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.


Huh? There are tons of meditations of this sort, they are not even remotely unusual ..to start with Vajrayana has many techniques that are like this..and even some instructions on Zazen are similar to this, minus the sound.

To be frank, the selling point of this is probably not the meditation, so much as it is the scientific and "ideology free" meditation claim, which I personally find dubious.


I went to an acem introduction once, at the university in Oslo. They presented their thing as beeing free from religion, mysticism, ideology, etc., and based on scientific evidence, and extensive reasearch etc. On my first visit to the headquarter, after the introduction, I was taken to a dark room in the basement, where a woman medium received a personal mantra for me to recite in meditation.

I was very put off by the contrast the science based front, and their occult based interior, so I did not return, nor employ the mantra.
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby philji » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:24 pm

I never concentrate or empty my mind of thoughts in meditation...so what do they make of that?
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby philji » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:28 pm

ACEM seems to have its origin in TM, despite a break away from that movement...
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Nosta » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:41 pm

Inge wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:http://www.acem.com/acem_sites/acem_com/the_method" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem to have their own site...

In Acem Meditation, you repeat a meditation sound mentally without effort, while thoughts and impressions are allowed to come and go freely. There is no attempt at emptying the mind.


Yeah, no one has ever seen a method like this before :thinking: :thinking:

Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.


Huh? There are tons of meditations of this sort, they are not even remotely unusual ..to start with Vajrayana has many techniques that are like this..and even some instructions on Zazen are similar to this, minus the sound.

To be frank, the selling point of this is probably not the meditation, so much as it is the scientific and "ideology free" meditation claim, which I personally find dubious.


I went to an acem introduction once, at the university in Oslo. They presented their thing as beeing free from religion, mysticism, ideology, etc., and based on scientific evidence, and extensive reasearch etc. On my first visit to the headquarter, after the introduction, I was taken to a dark room in the basement, where a woman medium received a personal mantra for me to recite in meditation.

I was very put off by the contrast the science based front, and their occult based interior, so I did not return, nor employ the mantra.


Maybe ACEM is just crap for selling stuff. I think these days people like to steal things from budhism and make it a creation of their own...
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby TaTa » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:04 am

I agree with alan wallace when he says that its ok to plug out a techinque from context and use it to relax a little but the notion that meditation can truly flourish without being in the framework of any meaningful context is nonsense. Yes, you can relax a little but i highly doubt that you will free yourself from samsara or even achieve high levels of shamata.
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:16 am

Inge wrote:I went to an acem introduction once, at the university in Oslo. They presented their thing as beeing free from religion, mysticism, ideology, etc., and based on scientific evidence, and extensive reasearch etc. On my first visit to the headquarter, after the introduction, I was taken to a dark room in the basement, where a woman medium received a personal mantra for me to recite in meditation.

I was very put off by the contrast the science based front, and their occult based interior, so I did not return, nor employ the mantra.

And their true colors are revealed.
Peace,
James
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Re: ACEM and wander meditation_Whats this?

Postby odysseus » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:51 pm

Nosta wrote:Have you ever speak about wander meditation?

It seems to be more effective than breath meditation:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ating.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which are the Mayahana or Theravada practices that focus "wandering meditation"?

Its sad to see that some modern meditation technique (like ACEM, that seems, to me, commercial stuff) are better that the ones used by monks.


This ACEM is the opposite of Right Mindfulness. If they let the mind wander, it leads to nothing but a bit of intellectual rest. Real mindfulness gives insight into true reality.

:cheers:
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