How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Anything goes (almost).

How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:54 pm

Hello,

Background story
About a month ago me and my former girlfriend broke up. After this break up someone I know posted a video of Alan Watts on facebook.
I watched it and became entangled with the whole concept of buddhism. Especially the compassion part.

Now I've been impressed with eastern culture for a long time already, I've had a buddha statue in my room for the better part of a decade, but this time the whole duality and unity of life totally slapped me in the face.

I loved my ex-girlfriend until the very extend of myself. She helped me through a very dark period in my life which is making this even more difficult for me.
I've read the wikihow article about handling a break-up the zen way and this is very much how I would like to handle things.

The way we broke up is definitly this way: "Relationship timing was off. Perhaps your schedule or his or her schedule was too hectic or one of you had to move to another city––either way, scheduling and location problems can often cause problems in a relationship. Instead of wallowing in the break-up, take it for what it is––a break. Give your sorrow to a higher power and consider the relationship to be a possibility in the future. If it was meant to be you will find each other again."

The main reason we broke up I believe, is because she never really got to experience life. She's 21, just starting college and hasn't been a party girl at all, she's been acting in line with what others expect of her her whole life.
She moved to a different city and she tasted true freedom there. Which led her to neglecting me in the relationship and totally focusing on herself and her new-found freedom.

She realized this and this is why we broke. I initiated a conversation with her to talk about our communication because she hadn't contacted me for about 4 days. She had been neglecting me for a much longer time already (maybe a month or two), so I entered the conversation with a thought in mind "Depending on her answer I might have to end this relationship because I feel miserable".
When we began the conversation the waterworks, emotions, thoughts and all came out. She said she loved me, but she couldn't give me what I needed (we never talked about what I need), that she was on a path from being a girl to womanhood, she didn't know what she wanted and other things.

This took me by surprise, as I had said to her "We need to talk" and I let her go first, I never really got to say to her what I really wanted to say because I was so shocked by all this.
My thoughts for as much as I remember were like this:"First she doesn't speak to me for a week? And now this? She's already made up her mind about this and wants to end it.."

So I went with it because I didn't want to get hurt anymore and in my mind she had already made up hers.

A few days after we broke up we had a conversation on facebook because I was still really shocked by the whole thing and didn't understand it one bit. We finished that conversation with that we had to give each other some space and that when we were ready we would contact each other to have a finishing talk or something like that.

I've written multiple letters directed towards her to get my feelings straight. In these letters I tell her what I've been thinking and what I felt.

Basically I've felt miserable and have turned to buddhism in many occasion when I felt sad. Either by listening to Alan Watts or by reading up on Buddhism.

Two days ago I went to visit her parents, say my goodbye's, thank them and maybe get some questions answered.
I got to ask the questions I wanted to ask and also got some really satisfying answers.

Now when I spoke to her parents I said that to me this break up was one-sided and that I went along with what she was saying because I was really surprised at everything that came out when she was speaking. Now this will undoubtedly reach her

They basically summed it up as her still being a bit immature. Not communicating about what she feels etc.

Questions
Now that you know the background story I have several questions.

In the letters I feel compelled to tell her what I felt and what I think was the cause of the break up. I want to tell her these things but I know that she will feel really bad about herself.
At the same time I want her to learn from this and not do what she did to me to someone else. At the same time I feel like I shove the blame towards her because I keep saying things like: "I hope you realize that this relation has ended because you did this, you did that" etc. Which is the thing that will probably hurt her.

- So my question is should I or should I not tell her how I've felt during this past month? It will hurt her a lot probably and I just can't bare seeing her cry again. But at the same time I want to let her know how miserable I was.

- In the letters I also tell her what she has done "for" me. That I really appreciate the time we spent together and that basically I still love her unconditionally and that I harbor no resentment towards her. Should I just tell her that? And leave out the parts in which I tell her how I feel about the whole situation?

- Should I be the one contacting her? Or should I let her contact me? Since in my mind she is the one who ended the relationship and said she still wanted to be friends. I feel like that if she still wants to be friends she should be the one initiating contact.

And last but not least.

- Should I even be thinking about all these things? Buddhism also teaches that you shouldn't focus on the future but on the here and now.

Anyone who can shed a light on this would have my thanks.

Rope.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:17 pm

I like Alan Watts but I would not listen to him personally during a breakup.

I don't know if there is a Buddhist answer can actually you out of this pain/suffering instantly. It's a big one. So, I can say over time, you will think of her less and less until there is someone new in your mind. Yes, there is a tendency to blame your ex because it's her who initiated the break-up.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Linjii
―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:40 am

Try to consider what she needs to move on and live happily... Can you give her that? Think of it like a gift.

Does she really need to know your brain inside out?
You think "if I "help" her to experience how I feel then she will have sympathy for me therefore she'll be nice to me."
Although somewhat logical; This is very weak and manipulative behaviour from you.
I guess this is why she's leaving you.
The more you try to "help her understand you" the more she'll want to get away from you.
She already understand enough about you that she wants it over with.
You want to make it harder for her by speaking to her family?
If you do that, then they'll only consider the additional heartache you're causing her and they will resent you.
You mentioned "she's a girl growing into a woman" or something similar...
I think what she really means is you act like a boy and she now wants a man.
She'll feels the way in which you want to "teach her" is either masochistic, needy or selfish... Perhaps all three combined.

I suggest you join a sports club and spend time with confident men.
Enough weeping into the internet with your problems already.
There's billions of women out there who want a man so take heart and be proud of who you are.
You can forget your ex, and still be who you are, but if you define who you by the loss of what's gone, then you cut yourself up for no reason.

You think the "budhist way" is to get all emotional, needy and introspective finding ways to shift blame onto others ?
That's not the Buddhist way
I suggest you take a good look at yourself in a sober light.

Sorry I didn't speak nice to you.
I hope you can be resilient enough to consider these words without "lashing out" (i.e passive aggressive behaviour)

If you thought about what she needs most of all, and gave her what she needs (even if she didn't know what she needs), and also, you didn't act so selfish ...then you wouldn't be in this situation... but too late now. (I'll come back to this in a moment)

If you are very liberal and think women need sensitive men then I guess you totally disagree with my outlook?
If yes I think then you are trapped in what you think a man should be like based upon 21st century western concepts and it#s possible for you to be lost in therapy for many years.
That's my opinion and I like this book on masculinity: "The way of the superior man by David Deida ".
(now ask yourself what she needs... No! not what you think only you can give her (that's just egotistical garbage btw) consider what she needs from any man. I assure you there are a million good men out there that would delight her.)

In conclusion:
I suggest that you couldn't give her what she needs because you don't know yourself. (I mean you need time to connect with yourself).
Therefore I suggest forgetting about relationships right now and just do what makes you feel strong, happy and alive.
Find yourself first and forget about finding any women. If you do this then I believe the right women will find you very easily.
I don't care how easy you claim it is for you pick up chicks or how good looking you are etc etc...
I believe I already diagnosed you correctly from your OP.

Good Luck & Good Day.
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:40 am

I thank you for your answer. It seems brutally honest and I can appreciate that.

garudha wrote:Try to consider what she needs to move on and live happily... Can you give her that? Think of it like a gift.

When I read this I actually cried, because I want nothing more for her to be happy. I'm just really sad that it couldn't be with me. But yes if I could do that I would wish for nothing more than to do that.

garudha wrote:Does she really need to know your brain inside out?
You think "if I "help" her to experience how I feel then she will have sympathy for me therefore she'll be nice to me."
Although somewhat logical; This is very weak and manipulative behaviour from you.
I guess this is why she's leaving you.
The more you try to "help her understand you" the more she'll want to get away from you.
She already understand enough about you that she wants it over with.
You want to make it harder for her by speaking to her family?
If you do that, then they'll only consider the additional heartache you're causing her and they will resent you.
You mentioned "she's a girl growing into a woman" or something similar...
I think what she really means is you act like a boy and she now wants a man.
She'll feels the way in which you want to "teach her" is either masochistic, needy or selfish... Perhaps all three combined.


First of all I would like to say that I've never manipulated her into doing anything, at least not consciously.
I did not want to make it harder for her by talking with her family. I wanted to make it easier for myself by getting a few answers (this may be considered selfish but it's what I felt to be right) and say my goodbye's and thank them. They have done a lot for me and always took me for who I am and I am very grateful for that.

I really don't want to make a resentful response to your comment on "she's a girl growing into a woman". But yes maybe I've been acting like a boy. But please tell me why she did not communicate towards me before breaking up and why her parents said that she's finally leaving the nest and doing the things she wants to do. I think that you put things as if I've mistreated her in some way, which could be true because I'm relating it to that, but I really hope I did not because I would feel really bad about that (again selfish).
Now I realize that it is very selfish of me to want an explanation for what has been done and not try to search blame within myself. At the same time I loved her so much I want her to be able to do the things she wants to do without feeling any regrets but only love. Which is why I'm struggling so much with this. I've never been with a girl for such a long time and I really want to do right by her.

This is why I posted this on here. To figure out a way so that I can put myself at ease and at the same time show her the love and respect I've always had for her (you can interpret this as another way for me to hurt her by showing what she's missing out on, but I do not feel that this is true) and let her be herself.
If she feels she could not be herself with me or tell me what she needed or that I was unable to give her what she needed even if she didn't know than yes, it was just not meant to be and I will move on.

garudha wrote:I suggest you join a sports club and spend time with confident men.
Enough weeping into the internet with your problems already.
There's billions of women out there who want a man so take heart and be proud of who you are.
You can forget your ex, and still be who you are, but if you define who you by the loss of what's gone, then you cut yourself up for no reason.


To comment you made about confidence is "spot on" as they say. I've always had a problem with confidence. I have been teased in high school and I have had a psychosis. I've been in therapy for about 6 years (because of the psychosis) and next month will be my last session. She pulled me out of my misery and showed me a positive side to things. Which is most likely why I'm having such a hard time with the break up because I don't want to lose that, which is actually very selfish.

garudha wrote:You think the "budhist way" is to get all emotional, needy and introspective finding ways to shift blame onto others ?
That's not the Buddhist way
I suggest you take a good look at yourself in a sober light.


I do not believe the Buddhist way is a way to find a way to shift blame onto others. I do not know what the Buddhist way is. Yet for some reason I've gravitated towards it and am now typing a post on this forum.
I never wanted to put blame unto others. I want to be able to look myself in the eye and say that I've done the right thing towards her, however much it may hurt for me.

garudha wrote:Sorry I didn't speak nice to you.
I hope you can be resilient enough to consider these words without "lashing out" (i.e passive aggressive behaviour)


I don't mind :). I hope you don't think I'm lashing out in anyway. I just appreciate that you took the time to write something up. I find it very useful.

garudha wrote:If you thought about what she needs most of all, and gave her what she needs (even if she didn't know what she needs), and also, you didn't act so selfish ...then you wouldn't be in this situation... but too late now. (I'll come back to this in a moment)

I realize that. But things are as they are and I just want to find a way to let her fly with just being grateful for what she has given to me and let her be at peace.

garudha wrote:If you are very liberal and think women need sensitive men then I guess you totally disagree with my outlook?
If yes I think then you are trapped in what you think a man should be like based upon 21st century western concepts and it#s possible for you to be lost in therapy for many years.
That's my opinion and I like this book on masculinity: "The way of the superior man by David Deida ".


I do not believe that I'm trapped in a certain perspective on what a man should be like. But yes in this pas relationship I've acted very sensitive and was always there for her, in essence neglecting myself and not doing the things I wanted to do.
So that was probably the root cause me not being my true self and in a way manipulating her into wanting to stay with me.

garudha wrote:(now ask yourself what she needs... No! not what you think only you can give her (that's just egotistical garbage btw) consider what she needs from any man. I assure you there are a million good men out there that would delight her.)


I do not presume that I can give her what she needs. The fact that we broke up is testimony to that. I just really really wanted her to be happy with me because I was so happy with her and I wanted her to feel the same.

garudha wrote:In conclusion:
I suggest that you couldn't give her what she needs because you don't know yourself. (I mean you need time to connect with yourself).
Therefore I suggest forgetting about relationships right now and just do what makes you feel strong, happy and alive.
Find yourself first and forget about finding any women. If you do this then I believe the right women will find you very easily.
I don't care how easy you claim it is for you pick up chicks or how good looking you are etc etc...
I believe I already diagnosed you correctly from your OP.

Good Luck & Good Day.


I believe that this is correct. I will try to practice Buddhism and just connect to myself.
Haha I haven't even thought about getting into another relationship. I will do that, thank you.
I have never done the "pick-up" game actually. Me and my ex-girlfriend were friends before we started our relationship.

My conclusion

I will not tell her anything I've put in my letters because they are selfish and I just want her to be truly happy, that it couldn't be with me sucks but I love her to much to deny her that.

PS. I see that you have removed your post. I do not know why but I would like to thank you for taking the time and effort to post it in the first place.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:40 pm

All human have a pure heart... so I think you'll be okay. You very much seem like a reasonable & well balanced person. I'm sorry that I didn't properly read about the parents in the OP.

I find it very interesting how you responded. When I said you were selfish, in relation to you ex, you slightly disagreed. Yet when I then went onto probe your "being" you accepted it and agreed with it.

My further analysis, based upon your reply, is that you should be humble enough to find good role models in life (real people not fictional movie characters) and try to learn from them. If you do that, then when you're older, you'll have a pre-wired model of how to be your own hero.

In relation to the above statement; You could say "Buddha is my hero" but I fear ones ego is liable to ignore any important information which threatens it so it's very helpful to be around real people who you're willing to learn from. For example; If you find someone in life who is strong/kind enough to be your "teacher" then you can say (to yourself) "this person is my Buddha" and you therefore put yourself into a humble and virtuous position because of the the relationship's dynamic.

Be careful... You won't be able to get rid of the teacher who has a sadist streak running through them but the very best teacher might not be there for you when you think they should be. So although slightly contradictory;.. Be humble enough to accept a teacher but you must also reject a teacher who teaches for no good reason. It's a fine balance. You might find a teacher who will not stop delivering their message (in your own interest of course) because they have such a need to be kind. You can spin this dynamic around in many ways (I think it's relevant to you in more than one way.)

I'm somewhat basing all this on guessing your age to be about 25 +-2 years.

Best Wishes!
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:42 am

garudha wrote:All human have a pure heart... so I think you'll be okay. You very much seem like a reasonable & well balanced person. I'm sorry that I didn't properly read about the parents in the OP.


Thank you for the compliment. Don't sweat the parents thing. I could have been clearer.

garudha wrote:I find it very interesting how you responded. When I said you were selfish, in relation to you ex, you slightly disagreed. Yet when I then went onto probe your "being" you accepted it and agreed with it.


I must say that at the time (during the relation that is) I did not consider my actions to be selfish. As I truly did everything I could for her. The thing that I really consider selfish is the fact that apparently she wasn't happy with me ( and to be honest the last couple of weeks I was unhappy as well) and that I still wanted to hold on to her for some reason. Denying her the happiness she is searching for, and as I've said I would never want to deny her that.

garudha wrote:My further analysis, based upon your reply, is that you should be humble enough to find good role models in life (real people not fictional movie characters) and try to learn from them. If you do that, then when you're older, you'll have a pre-wired model of how to be your own hero.

In relation to the above statement; You could say "Buddha is my hero" but I fear ones ego is liable to ignore any important information which threatens it so it's very helpful to be around real people who you're willing to learn from. For example; If you find someone in life who is strong/kind enough to be your "teacher" then you can say (to yourself) "this person is my Buddha" and you therefore put yourself into a humble and virtuous position because of the the relationship's dynamic.


I really wouldn't know how to pick someone to be my teacher. And would they have to know that I'm putting myself into such a position? Or would I just mentally pick someone, not tell them and be humble towards them?

garudha wrote: Be careful... You won't be able to get rid of the teacher who has a sadist streak running through them but the very best teacher might not be there for you when you think they should be. So although slightly contradictory;.. Be humble enough to accept a teacher but you must also reject a teacher who teaches for no good reason. It's a fine balance.


Thank you for that warning.

garudha wrote: You might find a teacher who will not stop delivering their message (in your own interest of course) because they have such a need to be kind. You can spin this dynamic around in many ways (I think it's relevant to you in more than one way.)


Could you explain this in a bit more detail? I'm especially interested in the "relevant more than one way" and what you mean by "this dynamic"(do you mean the teacher-student relationship?).
garudha wrote:I'm somewhat basing all this on guessing your age to be about 25 +-2 years.


Wow.. I'm actually 25 turning 26 in about 10 days.

garudha wrote:Best Wishes!

Thank you and you too my friend. This conversation has been a big help to me so far and I hope to return the kindness to others.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:08 pm

garudha wrote:In relation to the above statement; You could say "Buddha is my hero" but I fear ones ego is liable to ignore any important information which threatens it so it's very helpful to be around real people who you're willing to learn from. For example; If you find someone in life who is strong/kind enough to be your "teacher" then you can say (to yourself) "this person is my Buddha" and you therefore put yourself into a humble and virtuous position because of the the relationship's dynamic.

Be careful... You won't be able to get rid of the teacher who has a sadist streak running through them but the very best teacher might not be there for you when you think they should be. So although slightly contradictory;.. Be humble enough to accept a teacher but you must also reject a teacher who teaches for no good reason. It's a fine balance. You might find a teacher who will not stop delivering their message (in your own interest of course) because they have such a need to be kind. You can spin this dynamic around in many ways (I think it's relevant to you in more than one way.)
RopeNL wrote: Could you explain this in a bit more detail? I'm especially interested in the "relevant more than one way" and what you mean by "this dynamic"(do you mean the teacher-student relationship?).



The idea I had was; when there is a relationship there is a dynamic of some kind. We might say something like "The only relationship one can have is with oneself & all exists in mind", but in general terms (generally accepted reality) relationships do exist and there is a dynamic. Well, is it not true, as long as you live you are basically in a dynamic with the world ergo you could extrapolate "this dynamic" quite far and what is boils down to is having a relationship with oneself on a personal basis like in the quotation above. For example; 1. Let's say that "you love someone". But you can't transmit love through the air like magic. Where does this feeling lay? --it lays inside you. 2. Let's say "you feel love". Are you feeling what someone transmitted to you through the air? --No, they did not transmit anything. You feel it inside. Even if we say "I have Chi energy points located at x,y,z and they are receptive" you do still feel all feelings in your inner being, right? Anyway... The thing about romantic relationships is, imho, that they allow us to experience an intimate relationship with oneself. It's because we are open to the possibility to feel, I guess. Maybe you feel like you lost a part of yourself. Sure that girl was nice and I guess you miss her, this is natural, but can you honestly say you not now as whole as you've always been? If you really believe you have lost anything I challenge you to find exactly what you have lost, vis-a-vis you are not whole, and quantify it enough to be able to express it logically to another person. I refuse to believe you have lost anything and do think you are whole.

So the takeaway is that you haven't lost anything but you only gained experience or experienced a range of feelings because of life. I don't see any reason to be sad. I'm sorry but I'm really flying through concepts here without too much explanation but if you're able to string any sense of cohesive philosophy from reading my ramblings perhaps you won't be too shocked if I suggest that that girl, your ex, has acted as a prime teacher in this stage of your life and you're a very good student, imho, if you can accept her as your Buddha. I'm sorry to have arrived at this point in haste, so I may be pushing it a bit far to suggest the following,.. It was cute of you wanting to "make her know how you feel" (my interpretation and not your words I admit). Why? because she already followed her heart, acted as "magical princess of karma", and she did exactly what she should have done. She gave you so much already yet you believe she took something away? If you got my message and really feel it's true then consider how her giving (which you perceive as loss) could be called her "sacrifice" and compare that to the message of Jesus Christ. Pretty nice religion when viewed from that perspective, huh? Anyway! If anyone or everything, in this way, can be regarded as "teacher" then you just found yourself in a world born for you to find your own Buddha nature. This is what Buddhism means to me. They say female cannot be "Buddha"? That outlook is spiritual materialism imho.

So if you thought "She was a very kind person but everything changed and she now doesn't care about me and it's so confusing as it's like she is shallow person or her feeling was false"... That's just your "selfish" interpretation but from another point of view she has acted in a harmonious fashion at all times. Note #1 She might not be aware she is Buddha. Note #2 This is all very normal we call it "life" so no need to camp outside her window, declare her to be reincarnation of Christ, and get dragged away by the police.

Although I've gone quite deep into philosophy I still think it would be good, as I mentioned before, if you can find good role models in life.

Happy Birthday and Best Wishes.

edit: with regards to the second paragraph; it's not my intention to suggest "she was sadistic and you should be thankful you piece of sh*t". That's not my message at all. If you read it like that then just forget it all already as my writings wound appear to be too esoteric or my ideas not well enough communicated.
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:26 pm

I read http://www.wikihow.com/Take-a-Zen-Attit ... a-Break-Up and it all seems a bit wishy washy to me.

Let's not forget that Men & Women are (usually) primarily together for the purpose of breeding... XY & YY and all related nature.
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:53 pm

garudha wrote:The idea I had was; when there is a relationship there is a dynamic of some kind. We might say something like "The only relationship one can have is with oneself & all exists in mind", but in general terms (generally accepted reality) relationships do exist and there is a dynamic. Well, is it not true, as long as you live you are basically in a dynamic with the world ergo you could extrapolate "this dynamic" quite far and what is boils down to is having a relationship with oneself on a personal basis like in the quotation above.


I've approached this from a intellectual viewpoint a few times. Concluding that everything is defined by the duality and unity of life (even the duality and unity that exists between duality and unity). But I guess what you are saying is that what it boils down to is that I perceive all these things so all that I perceive is me as well?
So because of that I am solely in a relationship with myself?

garudha wrote:For example; 1. Let's say that "you love someone". But you can't transmit love through the air like magic. Where does this feeling lay? --it lays inside you. 2. Let's say "you feel love". Are you feeling what someone transmitted to you through the air? --No, they did not transmit anything. You feel it inside. Even if we say "I have Chi energy points located at x,y,z and they are receptive" you do still feel all feelings in your inner being, right? Anyway... The thing about romantic relationships is, imho, that they allow us to experience an intimate relationship with oneself. It's because we are open to the possibility to feel, I guess. Maybe you feel like you lost a part of yourself. Sure that girl was nice and I guess you miss her, this is natural, but can you honestly say you not now as whole as you've always been? If you really believe you have lost anything I challenge you to find exactly what you have lost, vis-a-vis you are not whole, and quantify it enough to be able to express it logically to another person. I refuse to believe you have lost anything and do think you are whole.


Actually, I would say that thanks to this break-up I'm feeling more like myself than I've felt in a long time. More like I didn't lose anything yet something (or some realization) has returned to me. Does that make sense?

garudha wrote:So the takeaway is that you haven't lost anything but you only gained experience or experienced a range of feelings because of life. I don't see any reason to be sad. I'm sorry but I'm really flying through concepts here without too much explanation but if you're able to string any sense of cohesive philosophy from reading my ramblings perhaps you won't be too shocked if I suggest that that girl, your ex, has acted as a prime teacher in this stage of your life and you're a very good student, imho, if you can accept her as your Buddha.


Funniest thing, when you wrote your last comment I actually starting thinking of her like a sort of Buddha. She showed me happiness and I really want her to be happy as well. But I don't know how to accept the fact that I can't give her that because something inside me just says that I should do something that shows her how grateful I am.
If that would be to let her go into the world I will do that.

Also, do you think that she is conscious of the fact that she is a Buddha or at least a Buddha to me?

garudha wrote:I'm sorry to have arrived at this point in haste, so I may be pushing it a bit far to suggest the following,.. It was cute of you wanting to "make her know how you feel" (my interpretation and not your words I admit). Why? because she already followed her heart, acted as "magical princess of karma", and she did exactly what she should have done. She gave you so much already yet you believe she took something away? If you got my message and really feel it's true then consider how her giving (which you perceive as loss) could be called her "sacrifice" and compare that to the message of Jesus Christ. Pretty nice religion when viewed from that perspective, huh? Anyway! If anyone or everything, in this way, can be regarded as "teacher" then you just found yourself in a world born for you to find your own Buddha nature. This is what Buddhism means to me. They say female cannot be "Buddha"? That outlook is spiritual materialism imho.


At first hand I don't really know what to make of this. I still have this feeling inside (subsiding I might want to add), that I have not shown her how grateful I truly am. That I cannot thank her enough for what she did. Yet there is something else inside me that says, if we were meant to be together and I really made her happy the relation would not have ended.
Like this struggle inside me between selfishness and unselfishness.

garudha wrote:So if you thought "She was a very kind person but everything changed and she now doesn't care about me and it's so confusing as it's like she is shallow person or her feeling was false"... That's just your "selfish" interpretation but from another point of view she has acted in a harmonious fashion at all times. Note #1 She might not be aware she is Buddha. Note #2 This is all very normal we call it "life" so no need to camp outside her window, declare her to be reincarnation of Christ, and get dragged away by the police.


I do not think that she is shallow, she has always been very true to herself. But I do not know why she choose those words "I can not give you what you need", she already gave me all I needed and I've come to see things through a different light now that we are broken up.
It might be that I cannot give her what she needs, otherwise we would have still been together. Which is what really saddens me, because I want her to be happy and realize what she has done for me.
But in the end it would have probably been a relationship that was out of balance, with me always being grateful not wanting to do her wrong.

Haha, I'm not going to camp outside her window don't worry about that. It would scare her probably and I would never want that I love her to much for that.

garudha wrote:Although I've gone quite deep into philosophy I still think it would be good, as I mentioned before, if you can find good role models in life.

Happy Birthday and Best Wishes.


I would like to view her as a role model, she is truly selfless even though she does not realize this. I kinda wish she did realize this though haha. The lessons she could teach others would be amazing :). But you are correct. I will spread the happiness she gave me unto others and stop my cycle of self hurt.

Are you saying that you pick a teacher after something has happened or someone has come into your life? Or that you can pick a teacher at random?

garudha wrote:edit: with regards to the second paragraph; it's not my intention to suggest "she was sadistic and you should be thankful you piece of sh*t". That's not my message at all. If you read it like that then just forget it all already as my writings wound appear to be too esoteric or my ideas not well enough communicated.

[/quote]

No I do not think she was sadistic at all. Yet I truly am thankful :P.

There is just one last thing. Which I would like to talk about.

She has never really experienced hardship (at least not in the ways I have). Things like a death in the family, someone close to her being getting really sick or anything of the sort.
I always felt I had to protect her from that. Which I now realize was really selfish, because hardship shapes who you are and you cannot escape from it.

Which is another reason I think this relation has ended. She wants to experience those things even if she doesn't realize that.

Yet I still really want her to know that when she goes through that, I will be there for her, like she was there for me. That to me nothing has really changed except that we will not be intimate again, I truly want to be her friend although I feel I might get hurt if she decides to confide her true feelings to someone else.
At the moment I also feel that if she were to get a new man in her life I would be jealous, why him and not me? And I do not wish to be like that, I truly want her to be happy.

How would I do that? How can I let her know that I will be there for her when she needs it? Without me getting hurt or jealous?

Do I have to cut myself out of her life? Or would that just hurt her? Because I wouldn't want that and she did say she wanted to stay friends.
I do not want to force myself into her life. So I would rather wait for her to contact me than ask her how she is feeling every now and then.

Also there is this glimmer of hope (or maybe selfishness I don't know) that maybe many years from now, we will find each other again both at our full potential of who we are and that we could truly make each other happy.
Is this realistic? I realize that I have to move on, and I will do this by trying to find myself, let her find herself, and make others around me happy just as she has made all of what I have experienced possible.

So basically what I'm asking is, is she saying by breaking up with me that we will "never" happen or "not right now" because I truly feel a connection with her. It could be that it is just the teacher paradigm you were speaking about but somehow I feel there is more than that.
Though I do not wish to live under the illusion that I could make her happy when I couldn't possible ever do that.

I realize that this is all future-speak, and I could never know if this will happen.

In conclusion, I would like to thank you (again :P), to help me clarify some things. This means a lot to me and if there is anything I could do for you or anyway or that I could express my gratitude in another way than words, I would do that.

PS. Thanks for the birthday wish :D
Last edited by RopeNL on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby uan » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:54 pm

garudha wrote:The idea I had was...


Garudha says some good stuff here.

On a more mundane level, ending a relationship is tough and about the only thing that makes the emotional pain go away is time.

This took me by surprise, as I had said to her "We need to talk" and I let her go first, I never really got to say to her what I really wanted to say because I was so shocked by all this.


I think this is probably one of the hardest things you are having to deal with. Your ex-gf got to get everything out, all the things she's been feeling, etc. But you didn't. And truthfully, it's too late to go back to have your side of the conversation.

Everyone wants to be heard. When you run into people beating a dead horse, it's usually because they don't feel they've been heard, or they need to say something "x" times before they feel satisfied they've been heard.

In your break up, you never got to be heard, at least to the point you feel you were heard, and to make that feeling more acute, it was your idea to "talk". Though your ex might think it was her idea, knowing if she didn't say anything to you for a while, you would want to "talk", which she would take as her cue to say what she wanted. She may also feel you had nothing to say, because her own head was full of stuff she needed to get out. The idea that a person thinks the world revolves around themselves is not limited to you.

There's also the elements of the would'ves, could'ves, should'ves of life. People obsess over these things. Goes along with the "if onlys". "If only I had done this, she would've...", etc.

From a Buddhist perspective, one way to deal with this is to realize that the "situation", the relationship, or whatever, doesn't need you to get your feelings out. There's no "relationship" there in a Buddhist sense, like there's a table you can put your hat on. There's only you. But when you really look at that through a Buddhist lens, there's no real you either.

I'd suggest reading a bit on emptiness, impermanence, equanimity, etc. To follow on a bit from what Garudha said - it's helpful to look at other people as a buddha or as a teacher. We should be grateful to those we interact with, not just the ones that help us, but the ones that hurt us, intentional or unintentionally or just situationally.

But at the same time, we should also look at other people with compassion, and with the understanding that they are as afflicted with delusions (in the Buddhist sense of the word) and conceptual minds as we are. Full of wants and desires and caught up in Samsara. We are all suffering. No one is really better off, or worse off, no one is more this or less that. With your ex, work to generate compassion and gratitude and a wish for happy life. Don't think of her as your ex. Think of her as a younger sister. Then turn your attention to other things.

Paraphrasing the words of the filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky who had to deal with a huge professional/personal loss "if your girlfriend comes to you, say Yes! If your girlfriend leaves you, say Yes!"

Often pain comes when our wants are different from reality. Allow life to be, accept what comes to you, unconditionally and without wishing it was some other way.
uan
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:58 am

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:10 pm

uan wrote:
garudha wrote:The idea I had was...


Garudha says some good stuff here.

On a more mundane level, ending a relationship is tough and about the only thing that makes the emotional pain go away is time.

This took me by surprise, as I had said to her "We need to talk" and I let her go first, I never really got to say to her what I really wanted to say because I was so shocked by all this.


I think this is probably one of the hardest things you are having to deal with. Your ex-gf got to get everything out, all the things she's been feeling, etc. But you didn't. And truthfully, it's too late to go back to have your side of the conversation.

Everyone wants to be heard. When you run into people beating a dead horse, it's usually because they don't feel they've been heard, or they need to say something "x" times before they feel satisfied they've been heard.

In your break up, you never got to be heard, at least to the point you feel you were heard, and to make that feeling more acute, it was your idea to "talk". Though your ex might think it was her idea, knowing if she didn't say anything to you for a while, you would want to "talk", which she would take as her cue to say what she wanted. She may also feel you had nothing to say, because her own head was full of stuff she needed to get out. The idea that a person thinks the world revolves around themselves is not limited to you.

There's also the elements of the would'ves, could'ves, should'ves of life. People obsess over these things. Goes along with the "if onlys". "If only I had done this, she would've...", etc.

From a Buddhist perspective, one way to deal with this is to realize that the "situation", the relationship, or whatever, doesn't need you to get your feelings out. There's no "relationship" there in a Buddhist sense, like there's a table you can put your hat on. There's only you. But when you really look at that through a Buddhist lens, there's no real you either.

I'd suggest reading a bit on emptiness, impermanence, equanimity, etc. To follow on a bit from what Garudha said - it's helpful to look at other people as a buddha or as a teacher. We should be grateful to those we interact with, not just the ones that help us, but the ones that hurt us, intentional or unintentionally or just situationally.

But at the same time, we should also look at other people with compassion, and with the understanding that they are as afflicted with delusions (in the Buddhist sense of the word) and conceptual minds as we are. Full of wants and desires and caught up in Samsara. We are all suffering. No one is really better off, or worse off, no one is more this or less that. With your ex, work to generate compassion and gratitude and a wish for happy life. Don't think of her as your ex. Think of her as a younger sister. Then turn your attention to other things.

Paraphrasing the words of the filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky who had to deal with a huge professional/personal loss "if your girlfriend comes to you, say Yes! If your girlfriend leaves you, say Yes!"

Often pain comes when our wants are different from reality. Allow life to be, accept what comes to you, unconditionally and without wishing it was some other way.


Uan, I would like you to know that I've read your comment, but I just spent the better part of half an hour on the response "garudha" wrote. I would much rather send you an appropriate and well thought out response than rush one.

Thank you however for responding.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby uan » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:34 pm

RopeNL wrote:Uan, I would like you to know that I've read your comment, but I just spent the better part of half an hour on the response "garudha" wrote. I would much rather send you an appropriate and well thought out response than rush one.


no worries, take your time.
uan
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:58 am

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:12 pm

If you ask her the questions that still cloud your thoughts then she'll get a pretty good idea of your true feelings for her.

I get the impression you feel you still had a lot to give but now she's taken away that opportunity you feel almost cheated.

If she sees you with another woman then she'll know you're giving what you got to someone and she could well feel jealous.

That'd be really quite manipulative and karma might smack you up later, or maybe not, I don't know how this crazy world works too well.

If you think being manipulative would be a bad thing then how is writing letters any different ?

Basically writing letters could be construed as a form of manipulation. Write your letters and burn them to the gods of the sky!

If you have valid intention then she either already knows or she'll get the message in a dream or karmic situation.

Don't worry too much about "being responsible" all the time. It's clear that you wish to take on responsibility. You should allow others freedom lest your responsibility turns into unwarranted controlling.

I think you wish "to be friends" but because you want her "to belong to you" you have to be honest (with yourself) and realise you can't give altruistically at this time. Still there is hope for you so don't feel too bad. Get on with your life.

This is all reasonable stuff, right? What's the alternative... demand 3 hours where she will listen to you rant on and supply you answers which would satisfy you! That's crazy, right?.. and you'd never even find any satisfaction anyway.

Madonna sang "Life is a mystery". It's so true.
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby yan kong » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:41 pm

Let it go, it's nature is transient. The pain comes and fades away yet you cling to it. Watch it rise, say hello then let it go.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
User avatar
yan kong
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 am

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby Ayu » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:52 pm

"Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved." (Unknown author)
:juggling:

I just found this article:

"Gary Zukav: How to Protect Yourself from People Who Hurt You
The author of The Seat of the Soul explains how to defend ourselves without hitting back, yelling or going on the attack."
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Prot ... eople_hurt

Maybe it doesn't fit in the right way to your topic? :shrug: But it's very helpful for me right now.
Metta, Karuna, Mudita, Upekha
*** om vajra krodha hayagrīva hulu hulu hūm phat**
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1258
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:48 pm

Ayu wrote:"Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved." (Unknown author)
:juggling:

I just found this article:

"Gary Zukav: How to Protect Yourself from People Who Hurt You
The author of The Seat of the Soul explains how to defend ourselves without hitting back, yelling or going on the attack."
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/How-to-Prot ... eople_hurt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe it doesn't fit in the right way to your topic? :shrug: But it's very helpful for me right now.


I really got loads from that author's book called "The Heart of the Soul" which I read as a teenager.
His message is to use your body as an indicator of your emotional state so you "don't forget yourself" or "get lost in moment" and from there you can understand yourself easier.
That said I don't think his books are a panacea by themselves and perhaps they trained me in body-awareness to such an extent I have become over-vigilant!
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:00 pm

uan wrote:
garudha wrote:The idea I had was...


Garudha says some good stuff here.

On a more mundane level, ending a relationship is tough and about the only thing that makes the emotional pain go away is time.


I believe this to be true. Yet this was my first long relationship which is why it stings so bad.

uan wrote:
This took me by surprise, as I had said to her "We need to talk" and I let her go first, I never really got to say to her what I really wanted to say because I was so shocked by all this.


I think this is probably one of the hardest things you are having to deal with. Your ex-gf got to get everything out, all the things she's been feeling, etc. But you didn't. And truthfully, it's too late to go back to have your side of the conversation.

Everyone wants to be heard. When you run into people beating a dead horse, it's usually because they don't feel they've been heard, or they need to say something "x" times before they feel satisfied they've been heard.


Yes. That's why I wrote everything down. To straighten things out in my head :). But the thing is. There are infinite possibilities yet this is how it turned out so this is how it should be.

uan wrote:In your break up, you never got to be heard, at least to the point you feel you were heard, and to make that feeling more acute, it was your idea to "talk". Though your ex might think it was her idea, knowing if she didn't say anything to you for a while, you would want to "talk", which she would take as her cue to say what she wanted. She may also feel you had nothing to say, because her own head was full of stuff she needed to get out. The idea that a person thinks the world revolves around themselves is not limited to you.


This seems like a correct way of putting it.

uan wrote:There's also the elements of the would'ves, could'ves, should'ves of life. People obsess over these things. Goes along with the "if onlys". "If only I had done this, she would've...", etc.

From a Buddhist perspective, one way to deal with this is to realize that the "situation", the relationship, or whatever, doesn't need you to get your feelings out. There's no "relationship" there in a Buddhist sense, like there's a table you can put your hat on. There's only you. But when you really look at that through a Buddhist lens, there's no real you either.


I've read about this. But I can tell you that I've moved away from the "what if's".

uan wrote:I'd suggest reading a bit on emptiness, impermanence, equanimity, etc. To follow on a bit from what Garudha said - it's helpful to look at other people as a buddha or as a teacher. We should be grateful to those we interact with, not just the ones that help us, but the ones that hurt us, intentional or unintentionally or just situationally.


II'll read up on that. Any specific book are website you might recommend?

uan wrote:But at the same time, we should also look at other people with compassion, and with the understanding that they are as afflicted with delusions (in the Buddhist sense of the word) and conceptual minds as we are. Full of wants and desires and caught up in Samsara. We are all suffering. No one is really better off, or worse off, no one is more this or less that. With your ex, work to generate compassion and gratitude and a wish for happy life. Don't think of her as your ex. Think of her as a younger sister. Then turn your attention to other things.


I'm trying to do that, I will let what happens happen, it's not like I can change anything anyway :P.

uan wrote:Paraphrasing the words of the filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky who had to deal with a huge professional/personal loss "if your girlfriend comes to you, say Yes! If your girlfriend leaves you, say Yes!"

Often pain comes when our wants are different from reality. Allow life to be, accept what comes to you, unconditionally and without wishing it was some other way.


I will do that. Probably won't be easy, but that's just the way things are.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:14 pm

garudha wrote:If you ask her the questions that still cloud your thoughts then she'll get a pretty good idea of your true feelings for her.


I don't really have any questions left. Thanks to you and the other people on here, my family and friends and myself I've figured out that I'll just let things be, and handle what comes my way when it comes.

garudha wrote:I get the impression you feel you still had a lot to give but now she's taken away that opportunity you feel almost cheated.


In sense I do yes. I can't deny that.

garudha wrote:If she sees you with another woman then she'll know you're giving what you got to someone and she could well feel jealous.


I won't do that. I agreed with you on the point that I need to figure out who I am myself before I begin another relationship, and I'm not your typical "let's go to the club and hit on girls all-night"-type of guy.

garudha wrote:That'd be really quite manipulative and karma might smack you up later, or maybe not, I don't know how this crazy world works too well.


I won't do that anyway.

garudha wrote:If you think being manipulative would be a bad thing then how is writing letters any different ?


It's not. I was just really pondering if I should tell her how I feel. That's why I wrote everything down to give me some peace of mind.

garudha wrote:Basically writing letters could be construed as a form of manipulation. Write your letters and burn them to the gods of the sky!


Haha, I already said that I wouldn't tell her about the letters or send her any for that matter :P.

garudha wrote:If you have valid intention then she either already knows or she'll get the message in a dream or karmic situation.


That seems a comforting idea :).

garudha wrote:Don't worry too much about "being responsible" all the time. It's clear that you wish to take on responsibility. You should allow others freedom lest your responsibility turns into unwarranted controlling.


I will try to do that.

garudha wrote:I think you wish "to be friends" but because you want her "to belong to you" you have to be honest (with yourself) and realise you can't give altruistically at this time. Still there is hope for you so don't feel too bad. Get on with your life.


I had that feeling of doubt indeed. I can't do that. So she should be free to do what she wants and I will do the same :).

garudha wrote:This is all reasonable stuff, right? What's the alternative... demand 3 hours where she will listen to you rant on and supply you answers which would satisfy you! That's crazy, right?.. and you'd never even find any satisfaction anyway.


Yes it is. Haha, no I wouldn't do that. I can barely sit through a 3 hour movie, let alone a 3 hour conversation about how I would want answers, which will probably not satisfy me.

garudha wrote:Madonna sang "Life is a mystery". It's so true.


Indeed it is :P.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby RopeNL » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:20 pm

yan kong wrote:Let it go, it's nature is transient. The pain comes and fades away yet you cling to it. Watch it rise, say hello then let it go.


I will try. Probably won't succeed all the time. But it's worth a shot.
RopeNL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:03 pm

Re: How to handle a recent break-up the budhist way?

Postby garudha » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:35 pm

Have compassion for yourself. Take care of yourself. Thank you for the thank you. :D
User avatar
garudha
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:33 am
Location: UK

Next

Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

>