No live teacher no problem

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

LastLegend wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Practice your best, with the understanding that maybe one day, you will in fact meet a teacher that jives wit yer mojo...it's not like Vajrayana is the only form of Buddhism that sees having a teacher as important.
If I happen to meet a teacher, I will be happy to receive him. I don't deny the importance of having a teacher, though you must acknowledge what you speak of comes from a place of your personal experience. Maybe I am being arrogant and full of it.

Yes personal experience for sure, but again also the simple logic of "learnin stuff good" - what else would you say "I can learn it all just as well my on my own and from books" about? Martial Arts? Cooking? nearly anything worth learning benefits immeasurably from a flesh and blood mentor I think..much less something as important as Dharma practice.

I'm also not trying to discount your visionary experiences by any means, btw..I believe in all that stuff too.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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LastLegend
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by LastLegend »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Yes personal experience for sure, but again also the simple logic of "learnin stuff good" - what else would you say "I can learn it all just as well my on my own and from books" about? Martial Arts? Cooking? nearly anything worth learning benefits immeasurably from a flesh and blood mentor I think..much less something as important as Dharma practice.
I can't argue with this. I can only say I know for myself. If you think what I know is my delusion, maybe it is. Who knows.
It’s eye blinking.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

LastLegend wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Yes personal experience for sure, but again also the simple logic of "learnin stuff good" - what else would you say "I can learn it all just as well my on my own and from books" about? Martial Arts? Cooking? nearly anything worth learning benefits immeasurably from a flesh and blood mentor I think..much less something as important as Dharma practice.
I can't argue with this. I can only say I know for myself. If you think what I know is my delusion, maybe it is. Who knows.

I don't think it's delusion, i've had similar experiences, and don't discount the mystical experiences in the least..in fact i'd imagine (though I have no expertise to make real a call) such things might be interpreted as a good sign. I just don't think it means you shouldn't have an person teacher.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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LastLegend
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by LastLegend »

I don't disagree. If a teacher comes, he/she will come. That's all I can say. In the mean time, I think I can manage. Also, given the path of Pure Land, a teacher is not necessary. It's based on Faith, Vow (to be reborn in Pure Land), and Practice (of recitation or other form of Amitabha). So my view comes from that. While Vajrayana is different, a teacher is necessary. But if people have no fear of falling into the pit of hell, then why not :lol: .
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

LastLegend wrote:I don't disagree. If a teacher comes, he/she will come. That's all I can say. In the mean time, I think I can manage. Also, given the path of Pure Land, a teacher is not necessary. It's based on Faith, Vow (to be reborn in Pure Land), and Practice (of recitation or other form of Amitabha). So my view comes from that. While Vajrayana is different, a teacher is necessary. But if people have no fear of falling into the pit of hell, then why not :lol: .

If that's a concern, find a "safe" sutrayana teacher, falling into the pit of hell by following the wrong person..well, that situation takes two to tango, so to speak.

Anyway,no one is talking talking about finding a Vajrayana guru or anything here anyway, just Mahayana teachings - which recommend a spiritual friend.

So if you feel this convinced about it, why'd you post?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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LastLegend
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by LastLegend »

I don't think I post to search for the answer. The majority of opinion is seek a guru/teacher, but there are a few deluded like myself who don't feel the need of having a teacher and have no fear of falling into the pit hell, then why not.
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Mkoll
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Mkoll »

One doesn't need a flesh-and-blood teacher to go for refuge in the Triple Gem. That alone makes one a lay follower of the Buddha. And if one additionally follows the 5 precepts, that makes one a virtuous lay follower of the Buddha. That's already cultivating part of the path, and if one is not a monastic I think that's a sufficient practice. No (flesh-and-blood) teacher, no problem.
Being a Lay Buddhist, AN 8.25 wrote:"Venerable sir, in what way is one a lay follower?"[1]

"Mahanama, inasmuch as one has gone to the Buddha for refuge, has gone to the Dhamma for refuge, has gone to the Sangha for refuge; in that way, Mahanama, one is a lay follower."

"Then, venerable sir, in what way is a lay follower virtuous?"

"Mahanama, inasmuch as a lay follower abstains from destroying living beings; abstains from taking what is not given; abstains from sexual misconduct; abstains from lying; and abstains from wine, liquor and intoxicants that are causes for heedlessness; in that way, Mahanama, a lay follower is virtuous."
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Grigoris
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Grigoris »

LastLegend wrote:But I am now. Maybe it's my delusion, who knows. :D
I'm taking bets on this one if anybody is interested... :tongue:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Hieros Gamos
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Hieros Gamos »

LL, MKoll, if you don't have leadership by example, how do you know you're not just tripping on yourself?
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LastLegend
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by LastLegend »

Simple, because I am always tripping. That's how I know I am tripping . Tripping my way to Buddhahood. :lol:
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Hieros Gamos
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Hieros Gamos »

Sounds a little romantic.
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LastLegend
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by LastLegend »

It can be. :mrgreen:
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Mkoll
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Mkoll »

Hieros Gamos wrote:LL, MKoll, if you don't have leadership by example, how do you know you're not just tripping on yourself?
Faith in the Triple Gem and following the five precepts is not hard to understand for me.

And if you want to pursue that line of questioning, I ask you this. How do you know your leader is not tripping over himself and thus showing you how to trip over yourself? How do you know it's not a case of the blind leading the blind?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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明安 Myoan
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Some of us have prayed for and been provided many wise compassionate teachers, all in a row, then broken off ties one after the other. What then? :shrug:

In the interim, I'm fortunate that the Pure Land school has a bit of a different take, for those beings especially stubborn in delusion like me. I'd still like a spiritual friend, but I'm not sure what that means. Can someone explain it a little? I don't yet have a friendship with any other PL practitioner in person.
Namu Amida Butsu
hop.pala
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by hop.pala »

"When the disciple is ready the teacher will appear."
:rolling:

Excuse.( i was think on myself :lol: )
Last edited by hop.pala on Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hieros Gamos
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Hieros Gamos »

Mkoll wrote:And if you want to pursue that line of questioning, I ask you this. How do you know your leader is not tripping over himself and thus showing you how to trip over yourself? How do you know it's not a case of the blind leading the blind?
Same way I know to go to a doctor when I'm sick. A doctor who isn't one of my own cronies.
hop.pala
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by hop.pala »

How do you know it's not a case of the blind leading the blind?
The teaching of Buddha is not oral teaching.You will notice when you meet an Master.An really master is: :jawdrop:
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by plwk »

How do you know your leader is not tripping over himself and thus showing you how to trip over yourself?
That reminds me of this...
"Then, having stayed at Uruvela as long as I liked, I set out to wander by stages to Varanasi. Upaka the Ajivaka saw me on the road between Gaya and the (place of) Awakening, and on seeing me said to me, 'Clear, my friend, are your faculties. Pure your complexion, and bright. On whose account have you gone forth? Who is your teacher? In whose Dhamma do you delight?'

"When this was said, I replied to Upaka the Ajivaka in verses:
'All-vanquishing,
all-knowing am I,
with regard to all things,
unadhering.

All-abandoning,
released in the ending of craving:
having fully known on my own,
to whom should I point as my teacher?

I have no teacher,
and one like me can't be found.
In the world with its devas,
I have no counterpart.

For I am an arahant in the world;
I, the unexcelled teacher.
I, alone, am rightly self-awakened.
Cooled am I, unbound.

To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma
I go to the city of Kasi.
In a world become blind,
I beat the drum of the Deathless.'

"'From your claims, my friend, you must be an infinite conqueror.'

'Conquerors are those like me
who have reached fermentations' end.
I've conquered evil qualities,
and so, Upaka, I'm a conqueror.'

"When this was said, Upaka said, 'May it be so, my friend,' and — shaking his head, taking a side-road — he left.
Would you have done better than Upaka today if you met such a claimant? :mrgreen:
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Mkoll
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Mkoll »

Hieros Gamos wrote:
Mkoll wrote:And if you want to pursue that line of questioning, I ask you this. How do you know your leader is not tripping over himself and thus showing you how to trip over yourself? How do you know it's not a case of the blind leading the blind?
Same way I know to go to a doctor when I'm sick. A doctor who isn't one of my own cronies.
Huh? So any teacher who isn't "on your payroll" so to speak is trustworthy? That would be every single teacher out there unless you have teachers you are your "cronies" that I don't know about.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Mkoll
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Re: No live teacher no problem

Post by Mkoll »

plwk wrote:
How do you know your leader is not tripping over himself and thus showing you how to trip over yourself?
That reminds me of this...
"Then, having stayed at Uruvela as long as I liked, I set out to wander by stages to Varanasi. Upaka the Ajivaka saw me on the road between Gaya and the (place of) Awakening, and on seeing me said to me, 'Clear, my friend, are your faculties. Pure your complexion, and bright. On whose account have you gone forth? Who is your teacher? In whose Dhamma do you delight?'

"When this was said, I replied to Upaka the Ajivaka in verses:
'All-vanquishing,
all-knowing am I,
with regard to all things,
unadhering.

All-abandoning,
released in the ending of craving:
having fully known on my own,
to whom should I point as my teacher?

I have no teacher,
and one like me can't be found.
In the world with its devas,
I have no counterpart.

For I am an arahant in the world;
I, the unexcelled teacher.
I, alone, am rightly self-awakened.
Cooled am I, unbound.

To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma
I go to the city of Kasi.
In a world become blind,
I beat the drum of the Deathless.'

"'From your claims, my friend, you must be an infinite conqueror.'

'Conquerors are those like me
who have reached fermentations' end.
I've conquered evil qualities,
and so, Upaka, I'm a conqueror.'

"When this was said, Upaka said, 'May it be so, my friend,' and — shaking his head, taking a side-road — he left.
Would you have done better than Upaka today if you met such a claimant? :mrgreen:
You are dodging the question. Answer mine and I'll answer yours.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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