Why do you All seek Enlightenment to avoid Suffering?

[V-Origin]

Hello, My name is V-Origin.

After all my years of existence as V-Origin through various V-Avatars, I am just wondering why do you All seek Enlightenment to avoid Suffering?

What if Enlightenment itself actually entails the Acceptance of All Suffering as part of the Fundamental Nature of All Existence?

Would you become so angry that you would actually cast names and insults at the Buddhas and All Buddhist Teachings as nothing more than a pack of corruption-filled lies?

V-Origin sharing his V-Innocence with you all.

[DGA]

What If...

What If...

And what if all of animated nature
Be but organic Harps diversely framed,
That tremble into thought, as o’er them sweeps
Plastic and vast, one intellectual breeze,
At once the Soul of each, and God of all?

What If is easy. Coleridge gets shut down when he realizes that his What If is standing in the way of Getting Laid by his pious spouse.

But thy more serious eye a mild reproof
Darts, O beloved Woman! nor such thoughts
Dim and unhallowed dost thou not reject,
And biddest me walk humbly with my God.
Meek Daughter in the family of Christ!
Well hast thou said and holily dispraised
These shapings of the unregenerate mind;
Bubbles that glitter as they rise and break
On vain Philosophy’s aye-babbling spring.

So my question to you and to Coleridge is this: what's the point of speculating? Do you have a particular idea to get over, or what?

[Soma999]

What do you think of this ? I would be interested to see what conducted you to formulate this question.

[Vasana]

What if Enlightenment itself actually entails the Acceptance of All Suffering as part of the Fundamental Nature of All Existence?

Suffering is one of the 3 marks of existence in the Buddhist teachings. It's accepted in that particular way but the difference between sentient beings and Buddhas is that Buddhas are free of self-grasping at an identity or a life-span that can experience suffering and have thouroughly extinguished all karma and obscurations that could result in suffering.

For Buddhas, the suffering of Samsara is like the suffering experienced in a dream. For beings unaware that the dream is illusory, it feels real and is taken to be real.

So accepting suffering as a fundamental part of existence is fine on one level but is something adventicious to the fundamental nature on another level.

[boda]

What if Enlightenment itself actually entails the Acceptance of All Suffering as part of the Fundamental Nature of All Existence?

It does entail that.

Would you become so angry that you would actually cast names and insults at the Buddhas and All Buddhist Teachings as nothing more than a pack of corruption-filled lies?

That would be fruitless, given that suffering is a fundamental part of existence.

[DGA]

Your V-move, V-Origin.

[dzogchungpa]

I am just wondering why do you All seek Enlightenment to avoid Suffering?

I don't like suffering.

[seeker242]

Would you become so angry that you would actually cast names and insults at the Buddhas and All Buddhist Teachings as nothing more than a pack of corruption-filled lies?

No, it's not possible for a Buddha to tell lies.

[dzoki]

Would you become so angry that you would actually cast names and insults at the Buddhas and All Buddhist Teachings as nothing more than a pack of corruption-filled lies?

No, it's not possible for a Buddha to tell lies.

Buddha uttered his Dharma of lies to the humans and gods. Why are they lies? Because it is impossible to express the absolute truth of shunyata in words. Therefore Buddhas skillfully use illusionary lies in order to guide beings to the truth. So how can one become angry?

[Ayu]

Would you become so angry that you would actually cast names and insults at the Buddhas and All Buddhist Teachings as nothing more than a pack of corruption-filled lies?

No, it's not possible for a Buddha to tell lies.

Buddha uttered his Dharma of lies to the humans and gods. Why are they lies? Because it is impossible to express the absolute truth of shunyata in words. Therefore Buddhas skillfully use illusionary lies in order to guide beings to the truth. So how can one become angry?

Well, "lies" is an illusionary wording also. If you explain the world to a child, you use simplifications.

[DGA]

I'm reminded of the parable of the burning house in the Lotus Sutra (chapter three), apropos of children and the charge that the Buddha is a liar. I don't think he's a liar or not a liar--he just says what needs to be said in order to get what needs done, done.

http://www.trinity.edu/rnadeau/asian%20 ... 0House.htm

[Grigoris]

V-Troll?

But seriously: Ultimately is there suffering, or is there just a perception of something we call suffering?

[binocular]

But seriously: Ultimately is there suffering, or is there just a perception of something we call suffering?

If ultimately, suffering doesn't exist, then why do we have the perception of suffering?
And if we have this perception of suffering due to ignorance, delusion or some such, then whence this ignorance or delusion?

[binocular]

After all my years of existence as V-Origin through various V-Avatars, I am just wondering why do you All seek Enlightenment to avoid Suffering?

What if Enlightenment itself actually entails the Acceptance of All Suffering as part of the Fundamental Nature of All Existence?

Good questions.
If samsara is as good as it gets -- then why bother with anything ... If samsara is as good as it gets, then even killing oneself won't help.
Talk about hell ...

[Grigoris]

If ultimately, suffering doesn't exist, then why do we have the perception of suffering?

The atman also does not exist but we have a perception of that.

And if we have this perception of suffering due to ignorance, delusion or some such, then whence this ignorance or delusion?

Ignorance is not a thing we possess, it is a lack of something.

[binocular]

The atman also does not exist but we have a perception of that.

Who is "we"? I don't have a perception of the atman.

And if we have this perception of suffering due to ignorance, delusion or some such, then whence this ignorance or delusion?

Ignorance is not a thing we possess, it is a lack of something.

Whence does this lack come?

[Grigoris]

Who is "we"? I don't have a perception of the atman.

But I bet you believe in an autonomous existing "self". I use the term "atman" because the Buddha spoke of "anatman".

Whence does this lack come?

What does that question even mean? How can you ask where an absence of something comes from?

[boda]

Who is "we"? I don't have a perception of the atman.

But I bet you believe in an autonomous existing "self". I use the term "atman" because the Buddha spoke of "anatman".

You must admit a difference between self and atman, or self and soul.

[dreambow]

Mind is not a box or store containing thoughts; rather, mind is thoughts arising and passing away. Our sense of time is based on the moving mind. Only when the mind is rendered quiet, tranquil, will there be a reduction in agitation, fretting, an awareness of our endless craving. The mind is a useful tool but left to run on becomes a tyrant and that's where suffering really kicks in. We all wish to avoid suffering, detachment leads to a reduction in suffering. 'Enlightenment is the holy grail', the light bulb moment. The path there is pathless but silence, keeping quiet, is a sure indication you may be on the right track.

[Grigoris]

Who is "we"? I don't have a perception of the atman.

But I bet you believe in an autonomous existing "self". I use the term "atman" because the Buddha spoke of "anatman".

You must admit a difference between self and atman, or self and soul.

I do. They both share one characteristic though: they have no real existence.