As ye sow so shall ye Streep

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boda
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As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby boda » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:19 pm

I’ve adored Meryl Streep since The French Lieutenant's Woman, so it pains me a bit to find myself agreeing, in a way, with the backlash brought by her comments at the Golden Globe Awards. On the surface I completely agree with her, but looking more deeply I question what’s really behind it.

George Clooney, a fellow actor, supported Streep by commenting that it’s not the presidents job to belittle his critics. By the same token, couldn’t we say that Streep is an actor and it’s her job to act, and it’s not her job to critique political figures? This got me thinking more deeply about what the presidents job actually is and it occurred to me that a big part of the job is simply appearing presidential. Out of curiosity I googled “What does it mean to be presidential.” Top of the results was an NPR article, see: http://www.npr.org/2016/06/04/480772286/barbershop-what-does-it-mean-to-be-presidential. In the article there’s a Hillary quote, in response to the president-elect’s presidential quality.

He praises dictators like Vladimir Putin and picks fights with our friends, including the British prime minister, the mayor of London, the German chancellor, the president of Mexico and the Pope.

I think most would agree this is not typical presidential behavior. But the question I’m struggling with is if this sort of behavior is actually more authentic.

We want to condemn dictators who abuse the people they govern. We don’t want to know that our government is actually in bed with these dictators, handing over billions of tax dollars in order to get the policies that Americans want, and effectively suppressing the chances for reform in abusive autocracies.

We don’t really care about the suffering in those societies. Or we care more about ourselves and maintaining our lifestyle.

I think being presidential essentialy means covering an ugly portrait with a pretty face, and Trump ain’t pretty.

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Malcolm
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:15 pm

boda wrote:I’ve adored Meryl Streep since The French Lieutenant's Woman, so it pains me a bit to find myself agreeing, in a way, with the backlash brought by her comments at the Golden Globe Awards. On the surface I completely agree with her, but looking more deeply I question what’s really behind it.

George Clooney, a fellow actor, supported Streep by commenting that it’s not the presidents job to belittle his critics. By the same token, couldn’t we say that Streep is an actor and it’s her job to act, and it’s not her job to critique political figures?


Since when is being an actor a limit on one's speech?

A president has to maintain the dignity of his office, something Trump is entirely unequipped to do. He should take a page from the queen's book. Come to think of it, maybe New England should repatriate.
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Ayu » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:26 pm

I think most would agree this is not typical presidential behavior. But the question I’m struggling with is if this sort of behavior is actually more authentic.

Yesterday I saw a documentary about Abraham Lincoln on TV. It was said, he was very intelligent in manipulating people. People nowadays realize that for the first time. He managed to pose as the simple man from the countryside, the hard-working son of farmers. And whenever people underestimated him, he didn't correct that picture. Like this it was much easier to manipulate his antagonists.

I think, Trump did something kind of similar in his campaign. He seems to be childish and stupid, and all those voters seem to be happy that it is socially acceptable now to be childish, aggressive and stupid. While those people fulfilled their purpose and made him president elect, well, his plan worked. He is one of the mightiest men in the world now, he who appears to have the mindset of a three-year-old child.

:thinking: In short: I don't believe, he is "authentic". I rather think, he is a most intelligent cheater.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:39 pm

I think Trump is awful and think most of the things Streep said were quite accurate.

ON the other hand, the general bubble of rich folk liberalism that her comments were coming from was hard to miss, disdain for the pastimes of the hoi-polloi (MMA and football), some nonsensical notion that only Hollywood produces art, when in fact it also produces a lot of exploitative garbage.

Glad plenty of people are speaking out against Trump, but Streep is in some ways a terrible spokesperson because the form of liberalism she represents is one factor that lost the election, my two cents.

On whether or Trump is "honest", I side with Ayu, it's all a gag, he's a calculating Oligarch that knows how to manipulate. It's personally amazing to me that anyone thinks he authentically cares about the things he babbles on about, I found him as fake as Hillary, only in a different way. The tweet thing is genius though, and a big part of his strategy..we'll see if and how quickly it's effectiveness wears off into his presidency.
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:48 am

boda wrote:By the same token, couldn’t we say that Streep is an actor and it’s her job to act, and it’s not her job to critique political figures?
People aren't defined solely by their workplace vocations, though. Streep is just as free to critique Trump on any platform available to her as I am free to critique Trump on Facebook or Twitter if I wish. Trump is also free to critique his critics, but it is unbecoming of a president, on account of the imbalance of power. Streep ultimately has no political power in reality, like most celebrities.
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boda
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby boda » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:14 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:On whether or Trump is "honest", I side with Ayu, it's all a gag, he's a calculating Oligarch that knows how to manipulate. It's personally amazing to me that anyone thinks he authentically cares about the things he babbles on about, I found him as fake as Hillary, only in a different way.

What does an oligarch actually care about? Acquiring and maintaining power. An oligarchy is ideally suited to that purpose. This is a democracy of course and he can't actually be a oligarch. In a democracy giving the people what they want is the only viable strategy to stay in office. For example, if what the people want is facilitated by lining the pockets of a corrupt dictator, ostensibly given as aid to an impoverished country, then being openly chummy with a corrupt dictator is a better reflection of reality, and thus more authentic. Demonizing them publicly while simultaneously being party to their exploits, under the ruse of humanitairan aid, is disingenuous.

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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Quay » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:29 am

Americans as a whole pay a great deal of the highest possible attention to what actors say. We worship some of them from time to time and give them exceptionally high non-acting jobs.

We did elect one as President, twice. And now a reality tv star-actor is getting a turn.
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boda
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby boda » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:36 am

Ayu wrote:
I think most would agree this is not typical presidential behavior. But the question I’m struggling with is if this sort of behavior is actually more authentic.

Yesterday I saw a documentary about Abraham Lincoln on TV. It was said, he was very intelligent in manipulating people. People nowadays realize that for the first time. He managed to pose as the simple man from the countryside, the hard-working son of farmers. And whenever people underestimated him, he didn't correct that picture. Like this it was much easier to manipulate his antagonists.

I suppose it could be said that Lincoln manipulated his competitors, by intentionally dividing the democratic party. But that was a strategic move that didn't rely on his opponents underestimating him as a country bumpkin.

I think, Trump did something kind of similar in his campaign. He seems to be childish and stupid, and all those voters seem to be happy that it is socially acceptable now to be childish, aggressive and stupid. While those people fulfilled their purpose and made him president elect, well, his plan worked. He is one of the mightiest men in the world now, he who appears to have the mindset of a three-year-old child.

I just finished reading a New Yorker article about intellectual conservative support for Trump. They suggest that Trump will essentially revitalize the republican party, which has grown rigid and impotent, if those terms can be used together. That's what tricksters do, they revitalize.

I don't usually read New Yorker articles, by the way. In passing my wife handed it to me squeaking (she has laringitis at the moment) something that sounded like "disturbing," and it happened to catch my interest.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:46 am

The whole purpose of Buddhism is to have fun, isn't it? - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: As ye sow so shall ye Streep

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:38 am

boda wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:On whether or Trump is "honest", I side with Ayu, it's all a gag, he's a calculating Oligarch that knows how to manipulate. It's personally amazing to me that anyone thinks he authentically cares about the things he babbles on about, I found him as fake as Hillary, only in a different way.

What does an oligarch actually care about? Acquiring and maintaining power. An oligarchy is ideally suited to that purpose. This is a democracy of course and he can't actually be a oligarch. In a democracy giving the people what they want is the only viable strategy to stay in office. For example, if what the people want is facilitated by lining the pockets of a corrupt dictator, ostensibly given as aid to an impoverished country, then being openly chummy with a corrupt dictator is a better reflection of reality, and thus more authentic. Demonizing them publicly while simultaneously being party to their exploits, under the ruse of humanitairan aid, is disingenuous.


In democracy, of the kind we have a t least, a huge amount of effort is spent convincing people that they want something which is in fact, bad for them. It's called manufacturing consent.

I get where you are going, that the "other side" has people as corrupt as Trump, but that he is simply more honest. I think you are wrong, and he in fact simply an excellent actor, i don't think he's any more truthful about his real view of the world and his place in it. He is *very* good at playing a certain part so that he could get elected and sell off the country for parts, which appears to be be about what he wants to do. All the culture war stuff is a total show to cover that up.
May the eyes of living beings be gladdened by skies made splendid by clouds
that lightnings garland, while on earth below, the peacocks dance with joy as
showers of rain, falling gently, approach.

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