Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:13 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:26 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Midwest US
Outside of Tibetan Buddhism, how influential us this text by Shantideva? Do schools such as Zen or Pure Land take much stock in it?

_________________
"If you want to travel the Way of Buddhas and Zen masters, then expect nothing, seek nothing, and grasp nothing." -Dogen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:24 am
Posts: 275
As far as I know, East Asian schools don't give much importance to that text like the Tibetans do.

_________________
Many meditators know how to meditate,
But only a few know how to dismantle [mental clinging].
- Je Gyare


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Posts: 5986
Location: Taiwan
It wasn't available in Chinese until modern times, but it has become somewhat popular after having been translated. I don't get the sense it is widely read in Japan, but a lot of Chinese Buddhists take an interest in it.

_________________
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog) Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog) Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog) Dharma Depository (Site)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:26 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Midwest US
I'm having trouble getting into the text myself, which is why I ask. Zen doesn't seem to place much stock in it, but it does seem like it's an interesting text. I think one of the main reasons why I'm having trouble, is the concept of bodhicitta itself. I know what the idea is, but I'm not sure how much it's taught outside of Tibetan Buddhism, especially in Zen. Of course, it does seem to be taught outside Tibetan Buddhism, just not using the same term or the same terminology. But this makes it just a bit confusing to me, especially in attempting to judge it's veracity, say, especially for Zen practice.

_________________
"If you want to travel the Way of Buddhas and Zen masters, then expect nothing, seek nothing, and grasp nothing." -Dogen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:23 pm 
Online
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Posts: 4612
Location: Baltimore, MD
dyanaprajna2011 wrote:
I think one of the main reasons why I'm having trouble, is the concept of bodhicitta itself. I know what the idea is, but I'm not sure how much it's taught outside of Tibetan Buddhism, especially in Zen.


Shantideva's "Way of the Bodhisattva" is virtually unknown in Zen Buddhism. Almost no Indian texts are referenced in Zen Buddhism. More or less Nagarjuna is the only Indian teacher outside of the short lineage from Mahakashyapa mentioned in Zen. Nagarjuna is also not generally read.

Bodicitta is Bodhi Mind in Zen although Bodhi Mind can also be used in different contexts. Bodhi Mind is the mind of awakening for all beings - "Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them all"

Kirt

_________________
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:39 pm
Posts: 43
kirtu wrote:
Shantideva's "Way of the Bodhisattva" is virtually unknown in Zen Buddhism. Almost no Indian texts are referenced in Zen Buddhism. More or less Nagarjuna is the only Indian teacher outside of the short lineage from Mahakashyapa mentioned in Zen. Nagarjuna is also not generally read.

If you mean "Zen in Japan," then perhaps it is true that sutras from India play little role. However, if you mean Zen in other countries such as China, Korea, Vietnam, etc., then Buddhist sutras from India do play a substantial role, and have from the beginning. Many texts still have a major place in these traditions, such as the Diamond Sutra, Lotus Sutra, Lankavatara Sutra, Surangama Sutra, etc. Historically, the Avatamsaka Sutra, Mahaparinirvana Sutra, and the Srimaladevi Simhanada Sutra were also important. Looking through the Platform Sutra, or even the compendiums of koans, there are many references to the Mahayana sutras, showing that people associated with the Zen school during its formative period had studied many of these texts.

FWIW, the lineage of Zen Patriarchs includes 28 Indian monks including some famous teachers such as Asvaghosa, Nagarjuna, and Vasubandhu.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:10 am
Posts: 44
Location: California, SF/Bay Area
The translation of The Bodhisambara Treatise Commentary (one of those texts...) put out by Kalavinka press mentions that this text was more popular than Shantideva's text in China. Shantideva's text made it around at some point but not given much attention. The Bodhisambara came in earlier and is essentially the "equivalent" text. I like Shantideva's because it is more concise and poetic but these texts provide a lot more detailed information/clarification which I found also very helpful. I am not near the book at the moment to put the exact intro Bhikshu Dharmamitra wrote here...maybe someone else has it.

So..excluding Zen/Japanese Buddhism...but from the translator's intro this text seemed to have equivalent status in the formation of Chinese Buddhism as Shantideva's did for Tibetan Buddhism.

Instead of seeing why a text didn't make it one country...it could be because they had something sufficient/serving a similar role? Either way f you have a hard time with Shantideva's work maybe the style of these texts will be different for you while covering the same topics?

_________________
http://www.cloudrevolve.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Posts: 5770
just a follow-up to coldwater's excellent post:

http://www.amazon.com/Bodhisambhara-Tre ... 184&sr=8-4

this text is affordable & available in English for those who are interested in making a careful study of it.

_________________
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LastLegend and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group