Faith

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Re: Faith

Postby Ogyen » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:48 pm

To wake up in the morning and roll out of bed, I have to have faith I will take my next breath, and today is a good day because I'm here.

Faith, in its truest sense, is trust. Trust in what is not yet completely verified by our senses. But senses aren't the most honest of authors, they often confuse us with what seems.

So faith is intrinsic to breathing, come to think of it, whether you realize it or not, it takes faith to practice kindness, because the immediate results are rarely completely telling...

:broke: most of the time, I'm just trusting that this ALL is useful for something, even if I don't know exactly what... it will come to me, I'll sit in my pond of stillness till it reveals its nature to my notions, then adjust accordingly... that's how i experience faith at least... it's not fancy, lacks doctrine, but in essence is just naked trust.
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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy
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Re: Faith

Postby muni » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:10 pm

Trust, yes.

Ah well, translations.

One said: Study first whatever you can, follow teachings whatever you can, and then you will be ready to find your genuine master in which you can have faith.
Falling down into thoughts' stream, identification arises.
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Re: Faith

Postby catmoon » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:28 pm

Ogyen wrote:To wake up in the morning and roll out of bed, I have to have faith I will take my next breath, and today is a good day because I'm here.

Faith, in its truest sense, is trust. Trust in what is not yet completely verified by our senses. But senses aren't the most honest of authors, they often confuse us with what seems.

So faith is intrinsic to breathing, come to think of it, whether you realize it or not, it takes faith to practice kindness, because the immediate results are rarely completely telling...

:broke: most of the time, I'm just trusting that this ALL is useful for something, even if I don't know exactly what... it will come to me, I'll sit in my pond of stillness till it reveals its nature to my notions, then adjust accordingly... that's how i experience faith at least... it's not fancy, lacks doctrine, but in essence is just naked trust.


I thought it might be helpful to completely re-write your post, and provide another POV on the same topics. I hope you don't find this TOO offensive. :)


To wake up in the morning and roll out of bed, requires no faith, for today is the day and I am here. I need no inducement to go forth, neither do I need to fear, for nothing can affect my strong intention to practice.

Breathing is breathing, whether you realize it or not, and neither faith nor fear will change it's duration, so for now, I breathe, and am content.

Nothing is useful, nothing is futile. Abandoning these delusions, I go forth. I will sit in my pond of stillness, awaiting nothing, anticipating nothing, fearing nothing, and I will be at peace.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Faith

Postby Ogyen » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:15 pm

wonderful catmoon! looking at the same light through a different facet of the prism. It is true, it requires nothing more than what you already have. You alone are perfectly capable to dispel your own mental junk-in-da-trunk (hehe).

so. yeah. What catmoon ALSO said!

:heart:
Ogyen.

EDIT: this reminds me a quote which would be oddly appropriate here:

Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother.
Kahlil Gibran
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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy
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Re: Faith

Postby muni » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:18 am

Misunderstood faith is awful for ego. As a genuine master will kill that ego.
Falling down into thoughts' stream, identification arises.
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Re: Faith

Postby Hanzze » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:40 am

Thanks for sharing this faithful will! Where is a good will there is a good way. Thanks there is a faithful will! Thanks will! _/\_
Just that! :-)
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Re: Faith, ch 12 Avatamsaka Sutra

Postby Will » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:49 pm

Faith is the basis of the Path, the mother of virtues,
Nourishing and growing all good ways,
Cutting away the net of doubt, freeing from the torrent of passion,
Revealing the unsurpassed road of ultimate peace.

When faith is undefiled, the mind is pure;
Obliterating pride, it is the root of reverence,
And the foremost wealth in the treasury of religion,
Being a pure hand to receive the practices.

Faith is generous, the mind not begrudging;
Faith can joyfully enter the Buddha's teaching;
Faith can increase knowledge and virtue;
Faith can assure arrival at enlightenment.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby shel » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:26 am

Will wrote:Faith as used in Buddhism is not the blind belief of other religions...


Faith in any belief system exists on an individual basis, so how could it be possible to declare the character of any such system. It's like saying that the morality as practiced in Buddhism is of a certain character, when in reality the morality practiced in Buddhism is of a wide range.
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Homage to great compassion!
Homage to the deities who inspire faith and devotion!
Homage to the masters!


Atisha begins his Garland of Jewels...
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Truths of the Will

Postby smcj » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:11 pm

Will wrote:This article on faith, by a Bhikkhu, is too good to ignore just because this is a Mahayana thread.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ening.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I liked the article very much. He articulates the present cultural situation beautifully. I liked:

Western Buddhists, raised in a culture where religion and faith have long been at war with science and empiricism, find the tension very disconcerting. In discussing the issue with them over the past several years, I've noticed that they often try to resolve it in the same ways that, historically, the tension between Christian faith and scientific empiricism has been resolved in our own culture. Three general positions stand out, not only because they are the most common but also because they are so clearly Western. Consciously or not, they attempt to understand the Buddha's position on faith and empiricism in a way that can be easily mapped onto the modern Western battle lines between religion and science.

As I've said elsewhere, we are like men that are having relationship problems with our wives because we have unresolved issues about our mothers. We need to come to terms with the collapse of our previous beliefs in a healthy way before our Dharma practice can flourish in a healthy environment. Hysteria about the issue of faith is our biggest unresolved issue and biggest impediment.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Faith, ch 12 Avatamsaka Sutra

Postby Will » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:21 am

Faith makes the faculties pure, clear and sharp;
The power of faith is strong and indestructible.
Faith can annihilate the root of affliction,
Faith can turn one wholly to the virtues of buddhahood.

Faith has no attachment to objects:
Transcending difficulties, it reaches freedom from trouble.
Faith can go beyond the pathways of demons,
And reveal the unsurpassed road of liberation.

Faith is the unspoiled seed of virtue,
Faith can grow the seed of enlightenment.
Faith can increase supreme knowledge,
Faith can reveal all Buddhas.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:37 pm

Therefore I'll explain in steps practicing in accord:
Faith is most powerful, very difficult to have;
It's like in all worlds having
The wondrous wish-fulfilling pearl.

If one can always faithfully serve the Buddhas,
Then one can keep the precepts and cultivate studies;
If one always keeps the precepts and practices what one learns,
Then one can embody all virtuous qualities.

Self-control can develop the basis of enlightenment,
Study the foundation of cultivating virtues;
Always acting in accord with discipline and study,
One will be praised for excellence by all enlightened ones.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Je Tsongkhapa on Faith

Postby Will » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:47 pm

Without the desire to attain buddhahood that comes from cultivating
faith in a buddha's good qualities, you cannot overcome the
sense of contentment that thinks peace [nirvana] alone is sufficient
to fulfill your own aims. The desire to attain buddhahood on account
of training in love and compassion and seeing the fulfillment
of others' aims as a necessity can eradicate the sense of contentment
that thinks your peace alone is sufficient to fulfill others' aims, but
cannot stop the sense of contentment that thinks peace is enough
for your own aims. Besides this desire to attain buddhahood that
comes from cultivating faith in a buddha's good qualities, there is
no other way to stop the sense of contentment that thinks your peace
alone is sufficient to fulfill your own aims.


From Great Treatise vol 2
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:32 pm

When, equipped with faith, one proceeds to
cultivate the four immeasurable minds and the six pāramitās, one
then finally succeeds in realizing anuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi. This is
what is known as “patience rooted in faith.”


Vasubandhu Bodhisattva on the Bodhi Resolve

[The Hindrance of Doubt]
Fifth, eliminating the hindrance of doubt. Because doubt covers over
the mind, one is unable to develop faith in any dharma. Because
one has no mind of faith, one encounters the Buddha’s Dharma in
vain and gains nothing from it. This is analogous to a man’s entering
into a mountain of jewels. If he has no hands, he is unable to
acquire anything at all.


Chih-i Bodhisattva on Buddhist Meditation
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:40 am

Surveying the world with the eye of a Buddha, I saw beings with little dust in their eyes and with much dust in their eyes, with keen faculties and with dull faculties, with good qualities and with bad qualities, easy to teach and hard to teach, and some who dwelled seeing fear and blame in the other world.

Then I replied to the Brahma Sahampati:

'Open for them are the doors to the Deathless,
Let those with ears now show their faith.


MN 26: Ariyapariyesana Sutta; 1167-73)
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby dude » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:40 am

Vasubandhu Bodhisattva on the Bodhi Resolve

[The Hindrance of Doubt]
Fifth, eliminating the hindrance of doubt. Because doubt covers over
the mind, one is unable to develop faith in any dharma. Because
one has no mind of faith, one encounters the Buddha’s Dharma in
vain and gains nothing from it. This is analogous to a man’s entering
into a mountain of jewels. If he has no hands, he is unable to
acquire anything at all.


Chih-i Bodhisattva on Buddhist Meditation[/quote]


precisely
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:43 pm

"Lord, when those sentient beings to be tamed by the Tathagata go to the Tathagata for refuge, they have faith flowing from the true nature (dharmata). Therefore, they also go to the Dharma and to the Samgha of monks for refuge. It is because of their faith flowing from true nature that they go for refuge to those two refuges.

But when they go for refuge to the Tathagata, they do not go for refuge by reason of faith flowing from true nature. Lord, the going to the Tathagata for refuge is the actual going for refuge.


Srimala Sutra
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby Yuren » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:21 am

Will wrote:Faith as used in Buddhism is not the blind belief of other religions;


I wouldn't say that the rolle of faith in other religions can be reduced to mere blind belief. Let's not create straw men out of other traditions in order to assert our own.
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:55 pm

The bodhisattva who has newly generated the [bodhicitta] resolve sincerely reveres, is fond of, and delights in bodhi. Based on his faith in the discourses of the Buddha, he gradually becomes able to succeed in gaining entry to it. What then is meant by “faith”? When, equipped with faith, one contemplates the four truths, one then proceeds to eliminate the afflictions, false views, and fetters and then finally succeeds in realizing arhatship. When, equipped with faith, one contemplates the twelve causes and conditions, one proceeds to extinguish ignorance’s production of actions and then finally succeeds in realizing pratyekabuddhahood. When, equipped with faith, one proceeds to cultivate the four immeasurable minds and the six pāramitās, one then finally succeeds in realizing anuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi. This is what is known as “patience rooted in faith.”


Vasubandhu Bodhisattva's Treatise on the Bodhisattva Vow
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Faith

Postby Will » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:06 pm

One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting
In fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas.
Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe,
One should nonetheless maintain faith in it.


Nagarjuna in his Bodhisambhara shastra
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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