Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Admin_PC
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by Admin_PC »

daverupa wrote:We have very good ideas about it, in fact.
That's a bit of a stretch, regardless of the consistency of the Agamas and the Nikayas, that's admittedly the body of knowledge of one stratum of the Buddha's students - the arahant renunciate monks.
daverupa wrote:none of it appears to be what the historical guy was up to.
Now you're just showing your ignorance of the Mahayana canon.
Badmouthing of traditions is explicitly stated in the ToS; I'm surprised you've gotten away with it this long.
Maybe quit while you're ahead?
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Northern Light
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by Northern Light »

Amida, Shakyamuni, Theravada, Mahayana, Suttas, Sutras ......

........ the only person who can categorically state as fact that they know what is true and what is not, is the man who is standing beside Siddharta Gautama (and I don't mean in metaphor!).

So as that is none of us, choose your faith; (and by 'faith' I include the Dharmas of Self Power too) and walk your path.

Discussion and debates are ok to a very narrow point, but arguing is so fruitless. Everything is just words. Words after words after words. Concepts, scriptures, ideas, reality, non-reality.

WWBS (What would Buddha say?).

In my head it's something like :- "Smile, respect the other man's viewpoint, and continue on your path".

Buddha said so many times, words to the effect of "take none of these teachings into your beliefs until you have put them to practice in meditation and found them to be the truth".

:namaste:
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
Nichiren Buddhist.
My lifetime outlook: "...just take the good.... there is always bad..... but just take the good". :)
Rakz
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by Rakz »

daverupe, Mahayana is a different religion altogether founded by realized beings such as Nagarjuna (who believed in Sukhavati)

Let's just leave it at that and move on.
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daverupa
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by daverupa »

Nighthawk wrote:daverupe, Mahayana is a different religion altogether founded by realized beings such as Nagarjuna (who believed in Sukhavati)

Let's just leave it at that and move on.
Well, I think I see what you mean. I must have wandered in here, confused.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Rakz
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by Rakz »

daverupa wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:daverupe, Mahayana is a different religion altogether founded by realized beings such as Nagarjuna (who believed in Sukhavati)

Let's just leave it at that and move on.
Well, I think I see what you mean. I must have wandered in here, confused.
Seems like. Back to dhammawheel for you :)
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Aemilius
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Re: Namo Amitabha Buddha, True and False

Post by Aemilius »

daverupa wrote:
Aemilius wrote: Well, we can't really know what he taught if we were not there, can we?
We have very good ideas about it, in fact.
Even if we had been present, we could have heard and understood it differently. Dependent on our mental capacity and other factors. Then we would each repeat our own versions of what we had heard and understood, and go on like this for decades and centuries. What did the historical Buddha teach in that case?
The oral recitation lineages worked differently than this. The favorable comparisons between the Agamas and Nikayas bear witness to a strong and mostly successful conservation effort. Large-scale differences set in with the various Abhidhammas, and these broaden further within the various Commentarial and Mahayana traditions.
And also, to use a metaphor that was used by the Shakyamuni, which compares Dharma to climbing a mountain: When You have climbed certain distance and have reached a higher altitude, You will know personally what things are necessary there, at the higher altitude. Things that were impossible to understand when You were on the sealevel.
Interesting; have you a citation for this from within that body of early oral material (i.e. an Agama cite, maybe something from a Nikaya)?
I was thinking of Dhammapada second chapter verse 28., Acharya Buddharakkhita's translation: "Just as one upon the summit of a mountain beholds the groundlings, even so when the wise man casts away heedlessness by heedfullness and ascends the high tower of wisdom, this sorrowless sage beholds the sorrowing and foolish multitude."

The mountain metaphor appears also in tantric buddhism, it is in some form in an Avalokiteshvara sutra (or sadhana) that has been included in the chinese canon.

Buddhism was oral in the beginning, and continued being oral for 400 or 500 years and even longer, we can't know for certain from the literature sources what is "early" and what is "not early".
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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