animal liberation

[Vajrasvapna]

Sherab Dorje here a good documentary about butchers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3xlMHxKnU.

[Mkoll]

Perhaps you are not aware about the way animals are killed in farming, the fact that babies mouses sing to their dead mothers broke my heart: http://theconversation.com/ordering-the ... hands-4659.

Among many other problems (read the comments), that article uses protein in its calculations which skews the numbers in favor of meat because meat has far more protein per kilogram than grains. Calories would have been a fair unit of measure to use but they wouldn't have supported the author's bias.

We are omnivorous creatures even though today people eat more meat than necessary, clearly not eating meat causes disease,including mental illness , and an early death for most humans: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203#, http://www.examiner.com/article/vegetar ... -new-study.

[my emphasis added]

It appears you didn't even read the abstract of the study you quoted. Its conclusion says: "However, there was no evidence for a causal role of vegetarian diet in the etiology of mental disorders."

I'm not going to bother citing studies that counter your claim that I emphasized. The fact that you would make such a bold and unsupported claim in the first place means I would be wasting my time.

[Vajrasvapna]

Among many other problems (read the comments), that article uses protein in its calculations which skews the numbers in favor of meat because meat has far more protein per kilogram than grains. Calories would have been a fair unit of measure to use but they wouldn't have supported the author's bias.

I quoted that article because of the story of baby mice. Anyway, I eat meat as a protein source, it may be different for you.

It appears you didn't even read the abstract of the study you quoted. Its conclusion says: "However, there was no evidence for a causal role of vegetarian diet in the etiology of mental disorders."

"Researchers say that vegetarianism is linked to poorer quality of life, more need for health care and higher incidences of cancer, allergies and mental health problems http://www.examiner.com/article/vegetar ... -new-study


"Vegetarian diet is associated with an elevated risk of mental disorders. However, there was no evidence for a causal role of vegetarian diet in the etiology of mental disorders." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203#. My intention is not to be too biased. He stated that vegetarianism is linked with mental illness, but that was not found evidence on causality between being vegetarian and mental illness. Scientific knowledge is based on skepticism, offer a text that does not exactly support my idea is a proof of my skepticism.

I'm not necessarily against a vegetarian diet, but against the idea that it is beneficial for everyone, not just for some. The objective of the topic is to debate about the practice of releasing animals, best keep us faithful to the topic. I will send some other links on the vegetarian subject to you.

The fact that you would make such a bold and unsupported claim in the first place means I would be wasting my time.

Sorry for wasting your time. Actually, I'm here just to train my capacity to write in English language.

[Mkoll]

Vajrasvapna,

You said: "clearly not eating meat causes disease,including mental illness , and an early death for most humans" and "My intention is not to be too biased." If the former isn't an extremely biased statement, I don't know what is -- I wouldn't have thought that even the most vociferous of meat eaters would make such a ridiculous claim but you've proved me wrong.

~~~

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread.

[Grigoris]

Sherab Dorje here a good documentary about butchers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3xlMHxKnU.

I like how she starts by killing a head of broccoli, puts the whole deal in perspective!

When I was a kid I used to work in a butcher shop (in a large city) as a cleaner (for pocket money). I know the deal. Alcoholism and unusually cruel behaviour was the norm. I also used to fish and hunt. Since I live in a rural area many butchers also slaughter their own livestock. I also know abattoir workers. They have the worst job of all.

The weirdest/sickest bit for me is when livestock owners spend all their time and energy looking after the animals: birthing them, feeding them, cleaning them, treating them when they are ill (like they were their own children, actually some know their animals better than their own children)... and then killing, skinning, gutting and cutting them up into pieces. Especially weird is small scale livestock owners since they have such a close and personal relationship with the animals.

OM MANI PADME HUM

PS Don't waste your time watching documentaries, go and visit an abattoir, then come back and try to convince me that life release is not a beneficial practice (remember that this thread is about life release practices, not vegetarianism). Until then your opinions are really just empty words. It'll also help your chod practice, you will see EXACTLY what it means to offer up ones body as food.

PPS Are your teachers also opposed to the efficacy of life release practices, or is it just your terrified ego talking?

[Vajrasvapna]

Vajrasvapna,

You said: "clearly not eating meat causes disease,including mental illness , and an early death for most humans" and "My intention is not to be too biased." If the former isn't an extremely biased statement, I don't know what is -- I wouldn't have thought that even the most vociferous of meat eaters would make such a ridiculous claim but you've proved me wrong.
Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread.

I said for most humans, this is the opinion of some nutritionist and also mine, I believe that most people should eat meat at least twice a month. I intend to write a topic on the subject of vegetarianism, to present arguments about eating meat or not.

I like how she starts by killing a head of broccoli, puts the whole deal in perspective!

I believe that plants have consciousness, because they are able to interact with the environment, this position was also supported by Gendun Chopel. But the fact that they do not possess a developed nervous system causes they do not experience the same level of pain that other beings.

PS Don't waste your time watching documentaries, go and visit an abattoir, then come back and try to convince me that life release is not a beneficial practice (remember that this thread is about life release practices, not vegetarianism). Until then your opinions are really just empty words. It'll also help your chod practice, you will see EXACTLY what it means to offer up ones body as food.

Once I had a dream with hellish demons, I believe that nothing should be worse than that.

PPS Are your teachers also opposed to the efficacy of life release practices, or is it just your terrified ego talking?

I am not opposed to this practice since it does not cause environmental damage and if the animal has not been imprisoned for the purpose of being sold for Buddhists. Any practice that helps to purify negative emotions is welcome.

I am also an animal lover, I always carry cat food with me, since there are many of them on the streets of my city. I remember one time I practiced chöd in a park and the cats were listening as I recited, perhaps attracted by my fake tiger rug.

[Grigoris]

Once I had a dream with hellish demons, I believe that nothing should be worse than that.

I seriously doubt that your dream could be worse then the reality of an abattoir. Really, SERIOUSLY, doubt it!

[Vajrasvapna]

Once I had a dream with hellish demons, I believe that nothing should be worse than that.

I seriously doubt that your dream could be worse then the reality of an abattoir. Really, SERIOUSLY, doubt it!

Ok, so.

[SeekerNo1000003]

Those Tirthika-ns.











Anyway, so i've had these HUGE spiders in my house lately, apparently they are likely "Giant House Spiders"..I always collect them in a mason jar and put them outside, today one was so big it barely fit the mouth of the large mason jar, only worked because it bent it's legs in luckily. Made my spine shiver. I always release insects when I can, but some times it really gets to me as I have a real aversion to them.

What kind of death are they being saved from?

By cat.

Hahaha....Oh then you would have loved the spiders I found one day in my washroom. There were hundreds of teeny weeny spiders hanging from a ceiling. (they were bigger than the small red ones that we often see in a garden,but small enough to still look cute ). I just took a glass & started collecting them, putting about 10-20 in each glass. Made a lot of trips to the garden that day....

[明安 Myoan]

Curious on how others practice to benefit animals?

I try to catch bugs and put them outside.
I think reciting mantras around our cats familiarizes them with the sound, maybe for future benefit.
I've also heard that an animal, upon hearing the Medicine Buddha Mantra, will no longer sink into the lower realms.

[lorem]

Curious on how others practice to benefit animals?

Charity to Ants.

Feed them!

[Dexing]

Aye yai yai!

Every so often these news stories pop up again and again. Actually, quite regularly...

Why aren't more Buddhist leaders speaking out about this?

From the latest:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017 ... gal-trade/

But according to He Yun and other experts, a tradition that once encouraged the spontaneous release of doomed animals has today become a commercial enterprise in which people buy animals specifically to release them. The process may injure—or even kill—them.

This has “created a thriving industry for those who trap, trade, and sell wild animals for release, taking advantage of Buddhists’ empathy for animals,” said the Venerable Refa Shi, president of The American Buddhist Confederation of New York, in a press release issued by Humane Society International.

A whole lot of stupid in these stories;

http://shanghaiist.com/2014/11/26/resid ... s-nets.php
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... karma.html
http://shanghaiist.com/2015/11/21/hangz ... _crabs.php
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2045859 ... then-died/
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2016/06/ ... nts-karma/
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2016/10/20/3441s943054.htm

[Sprouticus]

Aye yai yai!

Every so often these news stories pop up again and again. Actually, quite regularly...

Why aren't more Buddhist leaders speaking out about this?

From the latest:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017 ... gal-trade/

But according to He Yun and other experts, a tradition that once encouraged the spontaneous release of doomed animals has today become a commercial enterprise in which people buy animals specifically to release them. The process may injure—or even kill—them.

This has “created a thriving industry for those who trap, trade, and sell wild animals for release, taking advantage of Buddhists’ empathy for animals,” said the Venerable Refa Shi, president of The American Buddhist Confederation of New York, in a press release issued by Humane Society International.

A whole lot of stupid in these stories;

http://shanghaiist.com/2014/11/26/resid ... s-nets.php
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... karma.html
http://shanghaiist.com/2015/11/21/hangz ... _crabs.php
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2045859 ... then-died/
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2016/06/ ... nts-karma/
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2016/10/20/3441s943054.htm

We humans just can't have nice things, can we?