demons polish the way

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
omnifriend
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 am

demons polish the way

Post by omnifriend »

what is the viewpoint of demons testing dharma practitioners? thank you.
Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2948
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by Fortyeightvows »

This idea is a very old one in buddhism.

Shakyamuni after he accepted his meal from Sujata sat under the bodhitree when mara first tried to cause him to doubt, then attacked him with his army and then tried to seduce him with beautiful woman. This scene is ported beautifully in many paintings with the demons shooting arrows which turned to flowers.

This is an example of Buddhist path. To use discernment to overcome doubt, to use resolve to overcome fear and to use renunciation to overcome the senses. This control and calm leads to awakening.

Various biographys of the Buddha describe this is better detail.
omnifriend
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by omnifriend »

do demons test every highly evolved dharma practitioner?
tlee
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:54 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by tlee »

There is a class of non-sentient being, such as the torturers in hell realms, that are sometimes said not to exist from their own side, but are manifestations of our own karma ripening. They have no intentions.

Other beings aren't required to test our renunciation, daily circumstances are enough. It's possible that beings may wish to test us, or struggle to maintain influence over us by attempting to manipulate us with pleasure or pain. I don't know of any reason why a being must appear with the intention to test a practitioner.

I would caution against making the conclusion that troublesome beings intend to benefit us, they may not, even though they are required for us to develop the "perfections" that protect us from so much future misery. I'm of the idea that compassion is far more stable if it is grounded in both conventional and transcendental views and conventionally we should develop it knowing fully well that some people may want to harm us.
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: demons polish the way

Post by Ayu »

The intention of that being might be harmful, but we can learn something from this nevertheless. This learning and karma cleansing effect can be very good, helpful like a precious jewel. Although the causing being itself is no teacher, it could be regarded as a teacher.
37 practices of a bodhisattva wrote:(15) A bodhisattva’s practice is,
Even if someone exposes our faults or says foul words (about us)
In the midst of a gathering of many wandering beings,
To bow to him respectfully,
distinguishing that (he’s our) spiritual teacher.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... odhisattva
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: demons polish the way

Post by Ayu »

Ayu wrote:The intention of that being might be harmful, but we can learn something from this nevertheless. This learning and karma cleansing effect can be very good, helpful like a precious jewel. Although the causing being itself is no teacher, it could be regarded as a teacher.
37 practices of a bodhisattva wrote:(15) A bodhisattva’s practice is,
Even if someone exposes our faults or says foul words (about us)
In the midst of a gathering of many wandering beings,
To bow to him respectfully,
distinguishing that (he’s our) spiritual teacher.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... odhisattva
That's why they may not intend to test the aspirants, but their action is like a test for them.
Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2948
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by Fortyeightvows »

tlee wrote:There is a class of non-sentient being, such as the torturers in hell realms, that are sometimes said not to exist from their own side, but are manifestations of our own karma ripening. They have no intentions.
What beings exist from their own side?
goldenlight
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: demons polish the way

Post by goldenlight »

Only when one practices the way is he most susceptible to these kind of " demonic" attacks.People with inherent negative qualities don't fall prey to external negativity,Butchers for example have do not get moved when slicing the throat of animals,but dharma practitioners will quiver at the very thought.

The Shurangama Sutra gives exhaustive details of these demonic states,wherein the stability of dharma practitioners wavers.Many a time,it is a demonic attack from ones own skandhas,for example a practitioner having achieved a level of spiritual attainment goes on to state that " all is empty",hence there is no "way" to follow,he goes on to eat meat and consume liqour,stating all these entities are empty;Different cases such as these are mentioned in the Shurangama Sutra.

External attacks occur too,these are sometimes referred to as "psychic attacks" or "evil eye".Although these fall outside the realm of orthodox Buddhism,they nevertheless exist.Meditation with the aid of the Heart Sutra is said to be beneficial in such cases.
omnifriend
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by omnifriend »

is sila, Samadhi, and panna enough to tame the demons that come from ones own skandhas?
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: demons polish the way

Post by Queequeg »

"Reverand Mahakasyapa, the Maras who play the devil in innumerable universes of the ten directions are all bodhisattvas dwelling in the inconceivable liberation, who are playing the devil in order to develop living beings through their skill in liberative technique. Reverand Mahakasyapa, all the miserable beggars who come to the bodhisattvas of the innumerable universes of the ten directions to ask for a hand, a foot, an ear, a nose, some blood, muscles, bones, marrow, an eye, a torso, a head, a limb, a member, a throne, a kingdom, a country, a wife, a son, a daughter, a slave, a slave-girl, a horse, an elephant, a chariot, a cart, gold, silver, jewels, pearls, conches, crystal, coral, beryl, treasures, food, drink, elixirs, and clothes - these demanding beggars are usually bodhisattvas living in the inconceivable liberation who, through their skill in liberative technique, wish to test and thus demonstrate the firmness of the high resolve of the bodhisattvas. Why? Reverand Mahakasyapa, the bodhisattvas demonstrate that firmness by means of terrible austerities. Ordinary persons have no power to be thus demanding of bodhisattvas, unless they are granted the opportunity. They are not capable of killing and depriving in that manner without being freely given the chance.

"Reverand Mahakasyapa, just as a glowworm cannot eclipse the light of the sun, so, Reverand Mahakasyapa, it is not possible without special allowance that an ordinary person can thus attack and deprive a bodhisattva. Reverand Mahakasyapa, just as a donkey could not muster an attack on a wild elephant, even so, Reverand Mahakasyapa, one who is not himself a bodhisattva cannot harass a bodhisattva."

Vimalakirtinirdesa, Thurman Tr.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
goldenlight
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: demons polish the way

Post by goldenlight »

There are beings that exist from their own side, these seem to be “vehicles” to inflict retribution to beings, Shakyamuni calls them Ichchantikas (Depraved beyond redemption - Eg. Butchers/Hunters).These Ichchantikas suffer their own karmic retribution. Furthermore, any being causing distress and suffering to other beings exist from their own side, Eg. A bully who ridicules one at the workplace, someone casting aspersions on one behind ones back, Arrest and incarceration by the Police, Being stung by a bee/bit by a cat or dog all these are karmic attacks inflicted by “ real beings” having existence.
Ven. Master Hsuan Hua’s book -“Herein lies the treasure trove “ gives much insight on the above, You may find it helpful.
goldenlight
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Re: demons polish the way

Post by goldenlight »

omnifriend wrote:is sila, Samadhi, and panna enough to tame the demons that come from ones own skandhas?
Yes,but most important is Bodhichitta and Karunya (Compassion).When Bodhichitta manifests,even the most intense demonic states abate,This is based on the Mahayana tenet that even demons/ghosts etc need to be liberated,Non-Buddhists resort to forcible " exorcisms " disregarding the fact that spirits need compassion too.It is the greatness of Buddhism that cultivates such superior virtues. :namaste:
tlee
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:54 am

Re: demons polish the way

Post by tlee »

Fortyeightvows wrote:
tlee wrote:There is a class of non-sentient being, such as the torturers in hell realms, that are sometimes said not to exist from their own side, but are manifestations of our own karma ripening. They have no intentions.
What beings exist from their own side?
I recognize now that this "exist" is confusing.
What I meant here by "exist from their own side" is that the being in question sees, hears, feels, intends, etc..

A cartoon character does not hear, feel, intend, etc.. From our point of view, or side, they may appear to hear, feel, intend, etc., but they do not.
Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”