Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
- KarmaOcean
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Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Do beings in the realms listed below have Tathagata Gharba ?
I refer to these realms:
(4) Ghosts
(3) Asuras
(2) Animal realm
(1) Hell realms
I refer to these realms:
(4) Ghosts
(3) Asuras
(2) Animal realm
(1) Hell realms
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Does a dog have buddha nature?
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Tathagata Gharba means:
Tathagata : he who comes and goes in the same way, being in such a state or condition
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?scri ... rection=SE
Gharba : born from a womb, foetus, emryo
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate
i think beings in the hell, ghost and asura realms are not born from a womb. only humans and animals are born from a womb.
Tathagata : he who comes and goes in the same way, being in such a state or condition
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?scri ... rection=SE
Gharba : born from a womb, foetus, emryo
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate
i think beings in the hell, ghost and asura realms are not born from a womb. only humans and animals are born from a womb.
- KarmaOcean
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Thanks.crazy-man wrote:Tathagata Gharba means:
This text might be relevant...
http://huntingtonarchive.org/resources/ ... ha.doc.pdf
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Not quite it this case it is more like store.
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Yes. All sentient beings without exception have Buddha Nature, Tathagata Garbha. The current environment that the beings find themselves in is due to previous karma and afflicted emotions. However it does not affect their true Buddha Nature in any way.KarmaOcean wrote:Do beings in the realms listed below have Tathagata Gharba ?
I refer to these realms:
(4) Ghosts
(3) Asuras
(2) Animal realm
(1) Hell realms
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?Fortyeightvows wrote:Does a dog have buddha nature?
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
無Queequeg wrote:Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Do squirrels have nuts?Queequeg wrote:Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?Fortyeightvows wrote:Does a dog have buddha nature?
Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- Caoimhghín
- Posts: 3419
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- Location: Whitby, Ontario
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....Grigoris wrote:Do squirrels have nuts?Queequeg wrote:Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?Fortyeightvows wrote:Does a dog have buddha nature?
Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Let's say that only humans can attain awakening. How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being? Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?Coëmgenu wrote:Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....Grigoris wrote:Do squirrels have nuts?Queequeg wrote: Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?
Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.
The potential is always present, just our ability to realise it at a particular point in time may be difficult.
The sun always shines, even when it is obscured by clouds it is still shining.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- Caoimhghín
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
- Location: Whitby, Ontario
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.Grigoris wrote:Let's say that only humans can attain awakening. How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being? Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?Coëmgenu wrote:Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....Grigoris wrote:Do squirrels have nuts?
Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.
The potential is always present, just our ability to realise it at a particular point in time may be difficult.
The sun always shines, even when it is obscured by clouds it is still shining.
That seems to me in-favour of the notion that only humans really, functionally, have Buddha-nature.
This isn't a hard opinion of mine coming from an entrenched position though, I am quite open to the possibility of this being wrong.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Grigoris wrote: How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being?
無
Grigoris wrote: Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?
無
無Coëmgenu wrote: But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?
無Fortyeightvows wrote:Does a dog have buddha nature?
- Caoimhghín
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- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
That does this mean? No? Is it some kind of negation word? Is this Chinese internet slang?Fortyeightvows wrote:Grigoris wrote: How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being?
無Grigoris wrote: Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?
無無Coëmgenu wrote: But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?無Fortyeightvows wrote:Does a dog have buddha nature?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
-
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
It's a classic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaozhou_Congshen
Anyways I was trying to be silly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaozhou_Congshen
Anyways I was trying to be silly.
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Because there is a continuity in the potentiality. Hopefully they will be reborn in the human realm in a later lifetime.But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.
This discussion leads to a question for me though. If you are born in one of the pure lands my understanding is that negative karma is suppressed and there are big opportunities to create positive karma, but is this considered a human birth?
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
~Chatral Rinpoche
- KarmaOcean
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Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
I disagree. For example, men have nipples but - even if they only help the body regulate temperature - they're not irrelevant.Coëmgenu wrote:But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
Well ..... my first seshin at Zen Mountain Monastery, a guy in robes but not from the temple goes into dokusan with Daido Roshi, there is a pause and then 無!. You could probably have heard it all over the main building and certainly anywhere in the Buddha Hall .... followed by pin drop, dead silence. Then Daido Roshi began "We practice differently here ...".Fortyeightvows wrote:It's a classic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaozhou_Congshen
Anyways I was trying to be silly.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
What is the use in eating and living healthily if you are not sick?Coëmgenu wrote:]But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?
And where does this Buddha-nature hang out when we are not in a human form?Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.
That seems to me in-favour of the notion that only humans really, functionally, have Buddha-nature.
I am reminded of the Zen tale "The Spider's Thread" (蜘蛛の糸 Kumo) by Ryūnosuke Akutagawa:
Shakyamuni is meandering around Paradise one morning, when he stops at a lotus-filled pond. Between the lilies, he can see, through the crystal-clear waters, the depths of Hell. His eyes come to rest on one sinner in particular, by the name of Kandata. Kandata was a cold-hearted criminal, but had one good deed to his name: while walking through the forest one day, he decided not to kill a spider he was about to crush with his foot. Moved by this single act of compassion, the Buddha takes the silvery thread of a spider in Paradise and lowers it down into Hell.
Down in Hell, the myriad sinners are struggling in the Pool of Blood, in total darkness save for the light glinting off the Mountain of Spikes, and in total silence save for the sighs of the damned. Kandata, looking up by chance at the sky above the pool, sees the spider's thread descending towards him and grabs hold with all the might of a seasoned criminal. The climb from Hell to Paradise is not a short one, however, and Kandata quickly tires.
Dangling from the middle of the rope, he glances downward, and sees how far he has come. Realizing that he may actually escape from Hell, he is overcome by joy and laughs giddily. His elation is short-lived, however, as he realizes that others have started climbing the thread behind him, stretching down into the murky depths below. Fearing that the thread will break from the weight of the others, he shouts that the spider's thread is his and his alone. It is at this moment that the thread breaks, and he and all the other sinners are cast back down into the Pool of Blood.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba
This holds true for the higher realms as well. Buddha taught in Tushita Heaven and Maitreya is currently abiding there. Does Maitreya lack a Tahagatagarbha because he currently does not have the potential to achieve enlightenment, since he is in the God Realms and not the human realm?Punya wrote:Because there is a continuity in the potentiality. Hopefully they will be reborn in the human realm in a later lifetime.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde