Lower Realms and Tathagata Gharba

[KarmaOcean]

Do beings in the realms listed below have Tathagata Gharba ?

I refer to these realms:

(4) Ghosts
(3) Asuras
(2) Animal realm
(1) Hell realms

[Fortyeightvows]

Does a dog have buddha nature?

[crazy-man]

Tathagata Gharba means:
Tathagata : he who comes and goes in the same way, being in such a state or condition
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?scri ... rection=SE

Gharba : born from a womb, foetus, emryo
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate

i think beings in the hell, ghost and asura realms are not born from a womb. only humans and animals are born from a womb.

[KarmaOcean]

Tathagata Gharba means:

Thanks.
This text might be relevant...
http://huntingtonarchive.org/resources/ ... ha.doc.pdf

[Fortyeightvows]

Not quite it this case it is more like store.

[kirtu]

Do beings in the realms listed below have Tathagata Gharba ?

I refer to these realms:

(4) Ghosts
(3) Asuras
(2) Animal realm
(1) Hell realms

Yes. All sentient beings without exception have Buddha Nature, Tathagata Garbha. The current environment that the beings find themselves in is due to previous karma and afflicted emotions. However it does not affect their true Buddha Nature in any way.

Kirt

[Queequeg]

Does a dog have buddha nature?

Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?

[Fortyeightvows]

Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?

無

[Grigoris]

Does a dog have buddha nature?

Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?

Do squirrels have nuts?

Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.

[Caoimhghín]

Does a dog have buddha nature?

Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?

Do squirrels have nuts?

Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.

Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....

[Grigoris]

Does Howdy Doodie have wooden balls?

Do squirrels have nuts?

Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.

Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....

Let's say that only humans can attain awakening. How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being? Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?

The potential is always present, just our ability to realise it at a particular point in time may be difficult.

The sun always shines, even when it is obscured by clouds it is still shining.

[Caoimhghín]

Do squirrels have nuts?

Yes, ALL sentient beings (no matter how naughty they may be) have Tathagatagarbha.

Isn't there a traditional discourse that only humans can attain awakening? I recall having read that somewhere....

Let's say that only humans can attain awakening. How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being? Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?

The potential is always present, just our ability to realise it at a particular point in time may be difficult.

The sun always shines, even when it is obscured by clouds it is still shining.

But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.

That seems to me in-favour of the notion that only humans really, functionally, have Buddha-nature.

This isn't a hard opinion of mine coming from an entrenched position though, I am quite open to the possibility of this being wrong.

[Fortyeightvows]

How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being?

無

Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?

無

But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?

無

Does a dog have buddha nature?

無

[Caoimhghín]

How many lives have you lived as a non-human sentient being?

無

Where was your potential for enlightenment during those lifetimes?

無

But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?

無

Does a dog have buddha nature?

無

That does this mean? No? Is it some kind of negation word? Is this Chinese internet slang?

[Fortyeightvows]

It's a classic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaozhou_Congshen

Anyways I was trying to be silly.

[Punya]

But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.

Because there is a continuity in the potentiality. Hopefully they will be reborn in the human realm in a later lifetime.

This discussion leads to a question for me though. If you are born in one of the pure lands my understanding is that negative karma is suppressed and there are big opportunities to create positive karma, but is this considered a human birth?

[KarmaOcean]

But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality? Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.

I disagree. For example, men have nipples but - even if they only help the body regulate temperature - they're not irrelevant.

[kirtu]

It's a classic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateless_Gate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaozhou_Congshen

Anyways I was trying to be silly.

Well ..... my first seshin at Zen Mountain Monastery, a guy in robes but not from the temple goes into dokusan with Daido Roshi, there is a pause and then 無!. You could probably have heard it all over the main building and certainly anywhere in the Buddha Hall .... followed by pin drop, dead silence. Then Daido Roshi began "We practice differently here ...".

Kirt

[Grigoris]

]But what is the use of un-tappable potentiality?

What is the use in eating and living healthily if you are not sick?

Having Buddha-nature is largely irrelevant if it cannot be realized in a given lifetime.

That seems to me in-favour of the notion that only humans really, functionally, have Buddha-nature.

And where does this Buddha-nature hang out when we are not in a human form?

I am reminded of the Zen tale "The Spider's Thread" (蜘蛛の糸 Kumo) by Ryūnosuke Akutagawa:

Shakyamuni is meandering around Paradise one morning, when he stops at a lotus-filled pond. Between the lilies, he can see, through the crystal-clear waters, the depths of Hell. His eyes come to rest on one sinner in particular, by the name of Kandata. Kandata was a cold-hearted criminal, but had one good deed to his name: while walking through the forest one day, he decided not to kill a spider he was about to crush with his foot. Moved by this single act of compassion, the Buddha takes the silvery thread of a spider in Paradise and lowers it down into Hell.

Down in Hell, the myriad sinners are struggling in the Pool of Blood, in total darkness save for the light glinting off the Mountain of Spikes, and in total silence save for the sighs of the damned. Kandata, looking up by chance at the sky above the pool, sees the spider's thread descending towards him and grabs hold with all the might of a seasoned criminal. The climb from Hell to Paradise is not a short one, however, and Kandata quickly tires.

Dangling from the middle of the rope, he glances downward, and sees how far he has come. Realizing that he may actually escape from Hell, he is overcome by joy and laughs giddily. His elation is short-lived, however, as he realizes that others have started climbing the thread behind him, stretching down into the murky depths below. Fearing that the thread will break from the weight of the others, he shouts that the spider's thread is his and his alone. It is at this moment that the thread breaks, and he and all the other sinners are cast back down into the Pool of Blood.

[Grigoris]

Because there is a continuity in the potentiality. Hopefully they will be reborn in the human realm in a later lifetime.

This holds true for the higher realms as well. Buddha taught in Tushita Heaven and Maitreya is currently abiding there. Does Maitreya lack a Tahagatagarbha because he currently does not have the potential to achieve enlightenment, since he is in the God Realms and not the human realm?