Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
amanitamusc
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by amanitamusc »

Maybe it would count if you could remember it. :thinking:
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Grigoris
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Grigoris »

conebeckham wrote:Pretty sure "empowerment" received in previous lives don't count in this one.....
Am I missing something?
Maybe I am missing something....

Why would something we received/practiced in a past life not (possibly) ripen in this life?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Minobu
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Minobu »

Grigoris wrote:
conebeckham wrote:Pretty sure "empowerment" received in previous lives don't count in this one.....
Am I missing something?
Maybe I am missing something....

Why would something we received/practiced in a past life not (possibly) ripen in this life?
lol if it doesn't that means all of Buddha's teachings are false. Like Him going through life after life developing perfection.
tingdzin
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by tingdzin »

pemachophel wrote:Revealing teachings which are identified as secret within Vajrayana is not just "neutral." It is a serious breech of samaya, actually harms the Dharma that is revealed, robbing it of its power, and, in general, helps to decrease the true Dharma in this time of the mere "semblance of the Dharma." This is one of the reasons for the continuous revelation of new terma. Those who say otherwise, have not experienced the true power of secret teachings presented, maintained, and practiced "according to Hoyle." They're just running their conceptual mind, rationalizing what they'd like to be true but, in actuality, isn't. Too bad, too sad. Unfortunately, trying to get people to understand this who have not actually realized this as meditative experience is like trying to describe the taste of sugar.
This is all that's really necessary to say. Everything else is just drivel.
muni
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by muni »

Somehow it may be a blessing that many teachings are now so accesible. But at the other hand when (my) ego receives teaching, empowerment, is there then actually any teaching, any empowerment given/received?

This got some protests. We maybe can just reflect about for ourselves, not more.
https://chodpaorg.wordpress.com/2014/05 ... -students/
White Lotus
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by White Lotus »

There is actually no teaching or empowerment given or received! Only emptiness. :applause: inspite of that you try to keep you'r vows.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
Malcolm
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Malcolm »

Grigoris wrote:
conebeckham wrote:Pretty sure "empowerment" received in previous lives don't count in this one.....
Am I missing something?
Maybe I am missing something....

Why would something we received/practiced in a past life not (possibly) ripen in this life?
The Vajrayāna vows, like Pratimoksha Vows, are taken primarily on the body. They do not survive death.

As for the question of ripening — if someone has received empowerment in a past life however, it is more likely they will meet Vajrayāna teachings again.
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Minobu
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote:
Grigoris wrote:
conebeckham wrote:Pretty sure "empowerment" received in previous lives don't count in this one.....
Am I missing something?
Maybe I am missing something....

Why would something we received/practiced in a past life not (possibly) ripen in this life?
The Vajrayāna vows, like Pratimoksha Vows, are taken primarily on the body. They do not survive death.

As for the question of ripening — if someone has received empowerment in a past life however, it is more likely they will meet Vajrayāna teachings again.
I understand that when one dies all commitments are off the table.
If one breaks those commitments, is there any residual effect?

Also is it wrong to say that all growth from Vajrayana practice continues on , or affects the mind stream in future lives.
binocular
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by binocular »

pemachophel wrote:Revealing teachings which are identified as secret within Vajrayana is not just "neutral." It is a serious breech of samaya, actually harms the Dharma that is revealed, robbing it of its power, and, in general, helps to decrease the true Dharma in this time of the mere "semblance of the Dharma." This is one of the reasons for the continuous revelation of new terma. Those who say otherwise, have not experienced the true power of secret teachings presented, maintained, and practiced "according to Hoyle." They're just running their conceptual mind, rationalizing what they'd like to be true but, in actuality, isn't. Too bad, too sad. Unfortunately, trying to get people to understand this who have not actually realized this as meditative experience is like trying to describe the taste of sugar.
tomamundsen wrote:
binocular wrote:If they are indeed secret teachings that require special empowerments etc., then you, having no such empowerments etc., cannot possibly understand them anyway, so they are, at most, just neutral noise for you
Not necessarily. At least as far as I've been taught, being exposed to secret teachings or the meditative experiences of yogis on the path can cause someone to create concepts which they might grasp onto even after they've been initiated. It could cause an obstacle if that person practices tantra in the future.
Why would that be so?

I think that those who are initiated into the "secret teachings" are looking down on us plebeans with, at best, pity, or otherwise, with contempt, and that this is pretty much all there is to it.
Malcolm
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Malcolm »

Minobu wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Grigoris wrote:Maybe I am missing something....

Why would something we received/practiced in a past life not (possibly) ripen in this life?
The Vajrayāna vows, like Pratimoksha Vows, are taken primarily on the body. They do not survive death.

As for the question of ripening — if someone has received empowerment in a past life however, it is more likely they will meet Vajrayāna teachings again.
I understand that when one dies all commitments are off the table.
If one breaks those commitments, is there any residual effect?

Also is it wrong to say that all growth from Vajrayana practice continues on , or affects the mind stream in future lives.
Pratimokṣa and Vajrayāna vows perish at death. Bodhisattva vows on the other hand, never perish and are carried forward from life time to life time because unlike the former two, they are taken until one attains complete buddhahood.

It is not wrong to say that " Vajrayana practice continues on , or affects the mind stream in future lives" because Vajrayāna guarantees buddhadhood with 16 lifetimes at worst.
Malcolm
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Malcolm »

binocular wrote:
I think that those who are initiated into the "secret teachings" are looking down on us plebeans with, at best, pity, or otherwise, with contempt, and that this is pretty much all there is to it.
Really, you think HH Dalai Lama is looking down on you "plebeians" with contempt?
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Grigoris
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Grigoris »

White Lotus wrote:There is actually no teaching or empowerment given or received! Only emptiness. :applause: inspite of that you try to keep you'r vows.
You mistakenly believe that emptiness is one thing and teaching/empowerment is another? The only reason teachings/empowerments exist is because of emptiness. They are mutually inclusive. Go study the Heart Sutra, it is explained there much better than what I can explain it here.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
binocular
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by binocular »

Malcolm wrote:
binocular wrote:I think that those who are initiated into the "secret teachings" are looking down on us plebeans with, at best, pity, or otherwise, with contempt, and that this is pretty much all there is to it.
Really, you think HH Dalai Lama is looking down on you "plebeians" with contempt?
I his case, I think it's pity. I'd like to think he's merciful like that.
Malcolm
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Malcolm »

binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
binocular wrote:I think that those who are initiated into the "secret teachings" are looking down on us plebeans with, at best, pity, or otherwise, with contempt, and that this is pretty much all there is to it.
Really, you think HH Dalai Lama is looking down on you "plebeians" with contempt?
I his case, I think it's pity. I'd like to think he's merciful like that.
So you think he is looking down on you.
binocular
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by binocular »

Malcolm wrote:So you think he is looking down on you.
I don't think it's anything so personal. I really don't think I even register in his awareness.

What else would spiritually advanced people have for plebeians (such as myself), other than pity or contempt?

I mean, look at what Buddhist writings usually say about puttujanas -- that we're basically worthless idiots.
Malcolm
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Malcolm »

binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:So you think he is looking down on you.
I don't think it's anything so personal. I really don't think I even register in his awareness.

What else would spiritually advanced people have for plebeians (such as myself), other than pity or contempt?

I mean, look at what Buddhist writings usually say about puttujanas -- that we're basically worthless idiots.
If we were worthless idiots, the Buddha would not have taught, and would have remained silent. Since we are not worthless idiots, he taught, quite patiently, since there is in fact no difference between his state and our state, other than personal recognition.
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Minobu
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Minobu »

Malcolm wrote:
binocular wrote:
Malcolm wrote:So you think he is looking down on you.
I don't think it's anything so personal. I really don't think I even register in his awareness.

What else would spiritually advanced people have for plebeians (such as myself), other than pity or contempt?

I mean, look at what Buddhist writings usually say about puttujanas -- that we're basically worthless idiots.
If we were worthless idiots, the Buddha would not have taught, and would have remained silent. Since we are not worthless idiots, he taught, quite patiently, since there is in fact no difference between his state and our state, other than personal recognition.
slowly ,,ever so slowly ,,, I am coming to grasp what you have been trying to say about "His State and our State"..

but then this...
other than personal recognition
so does that mean our own awakening is the only difference between a Buddha and us.
White Lotus
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by White Lotus »

Yes, Grigoris. I am often speaking about things of which i have little knowledge. Point taken: all is emptiness. (except where there is no emptiness).
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
binocular
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by binocular »

Malcolm wrote:If we were worthless idiots, the Buddha would not have taught, and would have remained silent. Since we are not worthless idiots, he taught, quite patiently, since there is in fact no difference between his state and our state, other than personal recognition.
I wouldn't use "we" in your sentence above.
And I'm not sure about the patience part either.
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Grigoris
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Re: Please, do not share "secret teachings" online, with anyone.

Post by Grigoris »

White Lotus wrote:Point taken: all is emptiness.
Nope, that's the first extreme.

Again: Read the Heart Sutra and listen to some commentaries, you will find it all incredibly illuminating. Well... I did. ;)

Nagarjuna's Mūlamadhyamaka-kārikā (Fundamental Verses of the Middle Way) and Śūnyatāsaptati (Seventy Verses on Emptiness) are really helpful too.
(except where there is no emptiness).
Like where?
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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