Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

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JohnRammy
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby JohnRammy » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:37 pm

Everything lacks the identity (atman) imputed by mere conceptual labels.

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby Karma Dorje » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:56 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby conebeckham » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:57 pm



"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Tom
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby Tom » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:47 pm


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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby conebeckham » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:57 am

Not to distract you from my question, JohnRammy, but you may want to have a look at this....
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19896966/Can- ... -Justified

And also another one of Brunnholzl's books, Straight from the Heart, which includes some great info about Maitripa and his "blending of Sutra and Tantra"--pretty clear it happened before Gampopa's time.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

floating_abu
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby floating_abu » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:56 pm


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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby conebeckham » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:07 pm

I'm not holding my breath for any further constructive discussion on the topic....but it is an interesting one.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

the_eleven
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tantra?

Postby the_eleven » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:12 pm

Late to the party, but is there another starting point for this discussion besides the page 1 comment by JohnRammy on Nov 25, 2012 at 9:57 am?

It would be helpful to understand the context of the original question.
Strictly speaking there are no enlightened people,
there is only enlightened activity

Shunryu Suzuki Roshi

Yensen
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby Yensen » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:54 pm


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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby conebeckham » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:06 pm

Yes, Yensen. We all agreed that the Dohas are Tantric, and they are a primary source. I don't think there's any debate about that. The debate really boils down to whether or not there's evidence or support for Mahamudra and Dzogchen in the sutras.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Heruka
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby Heruka » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:19 am


Yensen
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby Yensen » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 am


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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby conebeckham » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:14 am

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion, Yensen....and I respect yours.
Check out Maitripa's tradition, if you care to. But the main thing is to practice. I'm frankly not interested in arguments and debates about the "legitimacy" ot "textual support" of any approach, these days. Others may feel differently.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Yudron
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Re: Mahamudra and Dzogchen: Are they based on Sutra or Tant

Postby Yudron » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:23 am

Author of Buddhist young adult fiction. Vlogger at Wisdom and Compassion: Grandma Yudron's Totally Chill Vlog on Meditation and Tibetan Wisdom Blogger at Very active on Twitter.


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