Malcolm wrote: T. Chokyi wrote:
Lhasa wrote: Thank you!
You're welcome Lhasa, I've been in empowerments with you by Garchen Rinpoche over the internet I do believe, I think I've seen you in the live chat Rinpoche allows at those empowerments, where we can request substances from Rinpoche, and also the deity images, sadhana, and mantras...I believe I've "seen" you there. Tashi Deleg to you!
This was never an issue. The issue is not whether someone can receive an empowerment through the internet.
The issue is whether one can receive an empowerment from watching a video of an empowerment that took place at an earlier time. This is impossible and I have given many reasons for why this is impossible.
I think many people are largely ignorant of what an empowerment actually is, and so believe all kinds of strange things are possible when in fact they are not. Such thinking truly involves abandoning the Buddha's teaching "where this exists, that exists, where this does not exist, that does not exist." Believing that one can receive an empowerment from watching a video is similar to believing that one can be sustained by looking at a picture of a fine meal. In reality, one will only be fed by sitting down at a real table and eating a real meal.
The point is not to deprive people of an avenue for making a Dharma connection. The point is to make sure that people actually make a Dharma connection.The person who takes secret mantra on his own
is like a child who swallows burning iron.
So you aren't even curious what Khenpo Samdup would say or teach about this?
Garchen Rinpoche, and Khenpo Samdup and a whole Sangha Gar Drolma in Ohio made sure to question Rinpoche completely and he said those count. If you don't want to know more about how they count you don't have to know but I want to know. I thought practitioners would want to know more, as this "exception" Rinpoche made is certainly not a "main stream" move, so all I did was share what I know and gave Gar Drolma an email so it could be clarified again...so rather than driving your points why don't you wait to hear something of what they say (they call Khenpo Samdup: Khenpo Rinpoche) these teachers know what they are doing, did you ever think they may know as much or more than you do about this topic.
I have had empowerments in person just like many of the practitioners here, and from more than one Guru and lineage, just like so many here, but maybe a little different ....my teachers are like my family and have stayed in my home and continue to do so on multiple occasions. Malcolm I"ve met you in person both with Bhakha Rinpoche a kazillion years ago out west, Khenpo Jigme Phutsok in 1992 or 93, my memory slips as to the exact year when he came to New England, and with CHNN in person just not that long ago in Conway during CHNN's Dakini empowerment, but you probably are not aware of that, not a problem, I am not "house bound" and it won't destory my faith either way if people consider Malcolm's right or Garchen Rinpoche right on this board, I am not taking sides in a "debate", what I did was clarify what a teacher said and I took that teacher Garchen Rinpoche at his word.
His word is legitimate to many people not just me, maybe not to you, but that is totally up to you, I thought you might be more open though and take the opportunity to explore this while it happens, this happened not long ago, and I don't know if it is a one time thing or for everything he will do.
Garchen Rinpoche is the holder of the 13 Dharmas of Drikung, or as some would say "the owner" then some would think it really it isn't up to anybody else except him and his lineage (which supports him) if he gives those transmissions any way he sees fit to give them on a relative level, he did make this "exception" to a very traditional and formal way to give these transmissions, and said both live net and recordings "count", to say he didn't have "skillful means" in mind, that he does not offer benefit this way and to say this can cause people harm... well, this is what you say rather than just exploring what the intention of this Rinpoche is, or why he did this, or anything else specific about this. Did you ever consider that he may know more than you do about these 13 Dharmas of Drikung and how to give them, and perhaps so does Khenpo Samdup Rinpoche, why argue back and forth without knowing what a very thoroughly trained Rinpoche in Drikung would teach about this, I can't imagine that you don't see this as an opportunity to learn something.
Gar Drolma was very clear when they wrote back that Rinpoche indicated both live, on the net, and recorded count, I'm only clarifying what was said, not blowing a trumpet here that you have to believe it or accept or give a kazillion reasons why or why not...thats how he
offered it, and from what I heard he taught it that way for those that wanted it, it was for those that have a connection with Rinpoche and at that time, I was also under the impression that the empowerments would be removed after a finite amount of time, I don't know what you consider your connection to Rinpoche....but I don't think he was referring to what other teachers do or don't do (past, present or future) he was only saying what he was doing at that time with those 13 Golden Dharmas.