Recognising reincarnations

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Punya
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Punya »

Points accepted but currently are empowerments being given by anyone who is not a member of the reincarnate or family lineages?
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JKhedrup
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by JKhedrup »

MANY Geshes, Khenpos, Loppons ;)
Punya
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Punya »

Thank you Ven. Since you mention Loppons does this mean it's not just the Gelugpa tradition where this occurs?
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JKhedrup
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by JKhedrup »

Yes.
I have received a permission initiation from a Nyingma khenpo who was neither a tulku nor a family lineage holder.
There are also several Kagyu teacher like this who give initiations. I imagine it is the same story in Sakya, though I sadly don't have much experience with that tradition.
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Punya »

Ok. Thank you for the new perspective. It's not something I've encountered.
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ngodrup
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by ngodrup »

Concerning giving wangs, it is definitely the case that there are no clear and absolute rules.
Generally speaking, one is supposed to have done the retreat. But sometimes not.
One doesn't even have to be a Khenpo or Geshe. Retreat experience and permission is enough.
Generally permission is based on realization, but sometimes Bodhicitta.

There's a well known western translator, a lay person, who isn't called "Lama," but has done
many retreats (not even 3 years-- but I think would add up to more than that) who gave wang
when told to do so.
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kirtu
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by kirtu »

JKhedrup wrote:Yes.
I have received a permission initiation from a Nyingma khenpo who was neither a tulku nor a family lineage holder.
There are also several Kagyu teacher like this who give initiations. I imagine it is the same story in Sakya, though I sadly don't have much experience with that tradition.
In general only high lamas give empowerments in Sakya. However I know of one Sakya khenpo in the US who is not the head of a lineage who does in fact give empowerments as well as a Sakya lama (a khenpo) in Europe who also gives empowerments. But basically in Sakya almost all the time only high lamas (basically certain members of the Khon family or lineage heads of the Ngor or Tsar lineages) give empowerments. In other words Sakya khenpos do not generally give empowerments.

Kirt
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JKhedrup
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by JKhedrup »

Thanks Kirt, that is interesting. I really have such limited exposure to Sakya- not for lack of wanting to know, just that there don't seem to be so many Sakya lamas around so the tradition is not as accessible.
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kirtu
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by kirtu »

conebeckham wrote: It is possible to recognize the samsaric quality of the Tulku system, (or terma discovery and terton recognition, for that matter) without completely discounting the system, the potential "truth" of Tulku phenomena, or even one's own recognition. That's my point. It's an analysis that is Eyes Wide Open, if you will.
A symposium on this topic, Feb 2013: The Tulku Institution in Tibetan Buddhism, This symposium presented a variety of views on the tulku institution from several notable academics (one of them a recognized tulku). So far I have not seen their published papers so I don't know if they are available online.

Here is a comment on the symposium from Tsadra.
The symposium held this past weekend at the University of San Francisco was a gathering of scholars from around the world who presented papers focused on the “Tulku” (སྤྲུལ་སྐུ་ , sprul sku) institution of Tibetan Buddhism. Organized by professor Tsering Wangchuk and Jake Nagasawa, the conference was the second recent meeting focused on the reincarnation system of Tibetan Buddhism. There were four main panels at the conference, allowing for thirteen seasoned scholars to present their research:
1) Tulkus in Transnational Buddhism: Authentication and Contestation of Hybridity in the Cross-Cultural Reincarnation System
2) Tulkus in Historical Context: Power, Knowledge, and Politics in the Innovation of the Reincarnation Institution
3) Tulkus as a Model of Ideal Beings: Embodying the Enlightened Characteristics
4) Envisioning and Retelling Birth-Stories: Tulku Lineage Narratives and the Quest for Legitimation.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
hop.pala
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by hop.pala »

...And no one can verify scientifically,that this is an tulku because can not be verify scientifically.and because we know that you can raise a little genius's children,for example i teach them 5-6 language.I speak not about that reincarnation does not exist,but in the ancient Egyipt was the belief that exist an second body that can live after the death,and was given for the dead several dishes.We can speak about the heaven according to Christian interpretation .We can see several religion,and several explanation of the underconsciousness.So i think tha reincarnation can be explainable,but in the view of the mastering of the underconsciousness.
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Ayu »

hop.pala wrote:...And no one can verify scientifically,that this is an tulku because can not be verify scientifically.and because we know that you can raise a little genius's children,for example i teach them 5-6 language.I speak not about that reincarnation does not exist,but in the ancient Egyipt was the belief that exist an second body that can live after the death,and was given for the dead several dishes.We can speak about the heaven according to Christian interpretation .We can see several religion,and several explanation of the underconsciousness.So i think tha reincarnation can be explainable,but in the view of the mastering of the underconsciousness.
However. It's a matter of point of view.
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Malcolm »

kirtu wrote: In general only high lamas give empowerments in Sakya. However I know of one Sakya khenpo in the US who is not the head of a lineage who does in fact give empowerments as well as a Sakya lama (a khenpo) in Europe who also gives empowerments. But basically in Sakya almost all the time only high lamas (basically certain members of the Khon family or lineage heads of the Ngor or Tsar lineages) give empowerments. In other words Sakya khenpos do not generally give empowerments.
And one should remember that the khenpos of Ngor are all from four traditional families, Luding, Thartse, Phande and one other whose name escapes me. Lama Kunga from SF is from the Thartse branch.

The khenpos of Tshar lineage also usually do give empowerments, but then there is also the Chogye Trichen incarnations as well as the Zimwok incarnations.
hop.pala
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by hop.pala »

However. It's a matter of point of view.
So.Therefore it is underconscious thing the reincarnacion.All thing that happen in the past is underconscious.Arise in the cerebral cortex.But in the part that is not conscious,and then go to normal consciousness.I think.So it is underconscious happeness.The explanation not be expected from Buddha because buddha is underconscious too.The explanation can be correct from the normal consciousness.
Saoshun
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Saoshun »

Reincarnations can be known of people or of ourselfs thru dhyana. You can know past, present and future of people, back rebirths and next rebirths. Some yogis even give tips that where he will be reincarnated and what to do with him to move him back into sadhana from young age. There is pretty famous story of baba lokanath that he suppress his guru so guru would after death be born here and there so become disciple of his own student. There are story of one women from india who meet guru and guru after her realization pass away saying that he wants to be reborn in her as her child. etc there are hundreds of things like this. When you have realization of deeper states you can penetrate beyond time and space with consciousness to know things or two by different means.
Destiny
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Destiny »

kirtu wrote:
conebeckham wrote: It is possible to recognize the samsaric quality of the Tulku system, (or terma discovery and terton recognition, for that matter) without completely discounting the system, the potential "truth" of Tulku phenomena, or even one's own recognition. That's my point. It's an analysis that is Eyes Wide Open, if you will.
A symposium on this topic, Feb 2013: The Tulku Institution in Tibetan Buddhism, This symposium presented a variety of views on the tulku institution from several notable academics (one of them a recognized tulku). So far I have not seen their published papers so I don't know if they are available online.

Here is a comment on the symposium from Tsadra.
The symposium held this past weekend at the University of San Francisco was a gathering of scholars from around the world who presented papers focused on the “Tulku” (སྤྲུལ་སྐུ་ , sprul sku) institution of Tibetan Buddhism. Organized by professor Tsering Wangchuk and Jake Nagasawa, the conference was the second recent meeting focused on the reincarnation system of Tibetan Buddhism. There were four main panels at the conference, allowing for thirteen seasoned scholars to present their research:
1) Tulkus in Transnational Buddhism: Authentication and Contestation of Hybridity in the Cross-Cultural Reincarnation System
2) Tulkus in Historical Context: Power, Knowledge, and Politics in the Innovation of the Reincarnation Institution
3) Tulkus as a Model of Ideal Beings: Embodying the Enlightened Characteristics
4) Envisioning and Retelling Birth-Stories: Tulku Lineage Narratives and the Quest for Legitimation.
Kirt
Does anyone know if there is a way to get the publication or the transcription of this Symposyum? I am very interested.
Thanks
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Re: Recognising reincarnations

Post by Grigoris »

Punya wrote:Ok. Thank you for the new perspective. It's not something I've encountered.
A couple of my teachers (Karma Kagyu) are authorised to give empowerments and they are not tulku. They are not Tibetans. They are not Geshe/Khenpo.
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