The real problem with tulku system is that it is a Tibetan cultural artifact, and not something which can be found in sutra or tantra.Sherab Dorje wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Personally I would prefer an overhaul of the tulku system rather than its being scrapped just because it has some flaws. Like I said earlier: this is samsara, it is flawed by its very natureconebeckham wrote:I am not certain we can infer that all those things are the result of the Tulku system. Sometimes, in fact, I think they exist despite it.Thank you. I will track it down and read it.(Kongtrul's opinion, in his autobio, is worth a look......)
Is this the one you mean: "Enthronement: The Recognition Of The Reincarnate Masters Of Tibet And The Himalayas" or is it this one: "The Autobiography of Jamgon Kongtrul: A Gem of Many Colors"?
Recognising reincarnations
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Now the application of pure vision is inane. I can't wait to see what will come up with next.Malcolm wrote:Well, you have not shown any such flaws, and moreover, you have only succeeded in proving that tulku system is inane by referring to pure vision.
So tell me something that I have not said repeatedly in this conversation.The tulku system only works in a world where there is higher and lower, pure and impure.
Now you are being ingenious and trying to pull down the status of the board based on my expression, of my personal opinion. You going to stoop much lower?Once you have decided that you are going to trot down the path of "pure vision", well, now you have no reason to ban Shugden and NKT here at all.
Apparently you disagree with the notion of a Tathagatagarbha too.According to "pure vision", the pope is as much a Buddha as the HHDL or the HHK, etc.
Excellent.
I think it is time I went and engaged in some practice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Considering that the tulku system does not come from tantras, why would they even mention it?Sherab Dorje wrote:The tantric texts do not call for abolishing of the tulku system though, do they? They are all situated within the same framework: Tibetan Vajrayana.
Re: Recognising reincarnations
They are all situated within the same framework: Tibetan Vajrayana. Please don't cherry pick.Malcolm wrote:Considering that the tulku system does not come from tantras, why would they even mention it?Sherab Dorje wrote:The tantric texts do not call for abolishing of the tulku system though, do they? They are all situated within the same framework: Tibetan Vajrayana.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Recognising reincarnations
First, my authority is not Tibet, my authority is sutra and tantra. I do not have to accept Tibetan cultural practices as authoritative, I don't eat Tsampa, drink Chang, or herd yaks.Sherab Dorje wrote:They are all situated within the same framework: Tibetan Vajrayana. Please don't cherry pick.Malcolm wrote:Considering that the tulku system does not come from tantras, why would they even mention it?Sherab Dorje wrote:The tantric texts do not call for abolishing of the tulku system though, do they? They are all situated within the same framework: Tibetan Vajrayana.
Greg, the tulku system started in Kagyu, than spread to other schools. It is not a universal thing in Buddhism, it never existed in India, and it does not need to exist in the West. I can understand your attachment to it, but it really is something which is a cultural practice of Tibetans and not really something which has a strong foundation in sutra and tantra.
This does not mean that there are no reincarnations, or that no one can recognize a reincarnation with accuracy. But the point is that there is a sufficient amount of corruption in the system to call the whole system into question. As long as there is no clearly defined criteria by which a tulku may be recognized, then I am afraid it is just a matter of faith whether one accepts someone as a reincarnation of a master or not.
This is why I bring up the examples of NKT. For example, according to them, <redacted> is Sakya Pandita's reincarnation. According to your logic, since this is the opinion of Trijiang Rinpoche, I should accept it, or at least not dispute it. Can't you see how crazy your point of view is? according to your point of view, I should accept that a worldly spirit is the reincarnation of one of the most important Sakya masters.
Last edited by DGA on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed the name of a controversial gyalpo per ToS
Reason: removed the name of a controversial gyalpo per ToS
Re: Recognising reincarnations
thread temporarily closed for cleanup.
Reopened. I've lightly edited two posts in this thread with respect to this clause in the ToS:
--the management
Reopened. I've lightly edited two posts in this thread with respect to this clause in the ToS:
let's not invite problems. thank you.History has shown discussions about Shugden/Dolgyal on websites such as this one result in flame wars. The management has taken a decision not to allow reference to or any discussion/debate of, and that means from all sides, all things Shugden/Dolgyal including: Teachers, monasteries, associated organizations, images, audio/video, written publications etc.
--the management
Re: Recognising reincarnations
So the tulku system is on par with eating tsampa and herding yaks...Malcolm wrote:First, my authority is not Tibet, my authority is sutra and tantra. I do not have to accept Tibetan cultural practices as authoritative, I don't eat Tsampa, drink Chang, or herd yaks.
Neither did/is Dzogchen, you reckon we should get rid of that too?Greg, the tulku system started in Kagyu, than spread to other schools. It is not a universal thing in Buddhism, it never existed in India, and it does not need to exist in the West.
I am not attached to it. If I was attached to it I would not be calling for its reformation. I am just not averse to it.I can understand your attachment to it...
I never said this.This does not mean that there are no reincarnations, or that no one can recognize a reincarnation with accuracy.
This is our fundamental point of disagreement.But the point is that there is a sufficient amount of corruption in the system to call the whole system into question.
I agree up to a certain point, but we have already had this discussion.As long as there is no clearly defined criteria by which a tulku may be recognized, then I am afraid it is just a matter of faith whether one accepts someone as a reincarnation of a master or not.
So you are not capable of maintaining pure view. Neither am I. That means that in most circumstances we are guided by personal expressions of attachment and aversion So just admit it and join the club!This is why I bring up the examples of NKT. For example, according to them, <redacted> is Sakya Pandita's reincarnation. According to your logic, since this is the opinion of Trijiang Rinpoche, I should accept it, or at least not dispute it. Can't you see how crazy your point of view is? according to your point of view, I should accept that a worldly spirit is the reincarnation of one of the most important Sakya masters.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Recognising reincarnations
I clearly did not say that. I said that there do exist real Buddhas though. Some of them are in fact at centers (some centers). These include Zen and Theravadin centers as well (I suppose I need to modify this to include Arhats at Theravadin places).zenman wrote:You say that literally there are fully enlightened buddhas at every dharma center?kirtu wrote:Yes there surely, literally, are, even at some Zen and Theravadin centers (not every dharma center though).zenman wrote: Surely there are no buddhas teaching at every dharma center.
However this statement was made in the context of Vajrayana (specifically Tibetan Buddhism) and is not meant to be literal.
People are at different levels of realization. Some people really are Buddhas (not many though).
Where are you studying?With great respect and gratitude to those many buddhist teachers and masters I have met and studied with, none of them, in my personal view have attained this level. I do not mean to say bad things here.
Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Recognising reincarnations
"A Gem of Many Colors." Tsadra Pubs., by Snow Lion, now I suppose Shambhala...Sherab Dorje wrote:
Is this the one you mean: "Enthronement: The Recognition Of The Reincarnate Masters Of Tibet And The Himalayas" or is it this one: "The Autobiography of Jamgon Kongtrul: A Gem of Many Colors"?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Kongtrul's biography is Gem of Many Colors. Enthronement has a document Kongtrul wrote on the occasion of the enthronement of the 10th Tai Situpa.Sherab Dorje wrote:Thank you. I will track it down and read it.conebeckham wrote:I(Kongtrul's opinion, in his autobio, is worth a look......)
Is this the one you mean: "Enthronement: The Recognition Of The Reincarnate Masters Of Tibet And The Himalayas" or is it this one: "The Autobiography of Jamgon Kongtrul: A Gem of Many Colors"?
Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Recognising reincarnations
My point is that it is a cultural practice.Sherab Dorje wrote:So the tulku system is on par with eating tsampa and herding yaks...Malcolm wrote:First, my authority is not Tibet, my authority is sutra and tantra. I do not have to accept Tibetan cultural practices as authoritative, I don't eat Tsampa, drink Chang, or herd yaks.
Dzogchen existed in India, and is found in the tantras, unlike the tulku system.Neither did/is Dzogchen, you reckon we should get rid of that too?Greg, the tulku system started in Kagyu, than spread to other schools. It is not a universal thing in Buddhism, it never existed in India, and it does not need to exist in the West.
I am not averse to it. If Tibetans want to continue the tulku system, they are free to. Some of their reincarnations might even be real ones, like ChNN — but most will be chosen and "blessed" as tulkus.I am not attached to it. If I was attached to it I would not be calling for its reformation. I am just not averse to it.I can understand your attachment to it...
Yup, we disagree on this point.This is our fundamental point of disagreement.But the point is that there is a sufficient amount of corruption in the system to call the whole system into question.
Re: Recognising reincarnations
If I remember correctly, a certain tulku whose teachings I have been following the past few weeks, stated quite clearly, a number of times that the Dzogchen teachings/method did not originate from India, but from one of the current day -stans: Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan...Malcolm wrote:Dzogchen existed in India, and is found in the tantras, unlike the tulku system.
So...
But now we digress.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Dzogchen was brought to Tibet from India by way of Vajrāsana. This is clearly stated in the early Dzogchen annals.Sherab Dorje wrote:If I remember correctly, a certain tulku whose teachings I have been following the past few weeks, stated quite clearly, a number of times that the Dzogchen teachings/method did not originate from India, but from one of the current day -stans: Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan...Malcolm wrote:Dzogchen existed in India, and is found in the tantras, unlike the tulku system.
So...
But now we digress.
Re: Recognising reincarnations
I think Sherab Dorje raised an interesting issue some time back that I'd like to bring us back to: the question of whether or to what degree the tulku system as developed in Tibet offers an efficient way to identify and train teachers and leaders when resources are scarce. Thoughts on this?Jikan wrote:I'm not so sure this is so. We have some historical precedent for a lineage of well-trained masters in the absence of the tulku system as it developed late in Tibet in the form we know it now: Buddhist India. Another: elsewhere in the Buddhist world, it's often understood that this contemporary master had been that one in times past. It's possible that the nirmanakaya manifestations that come into this world will find the training/practicing/learning opportunities they need to be effective as teachers in the absence of the tulku system, and we know this because it's been done before, and done outside Tibet.Sherab Dorje wrote:No tulku system, no tulku.
If it comes down to finding criteria by which an institution such as a temple or a monastery will invest limited resources in a particular trainee--is the tulku system necessarily the most effective and efficient one? I don't know the answer to that question.
Re: Recognising reincarnations
Not necessarily. Two major schools of Tibetan Buddhism do not operate this way: the largest, Gelugpa and as well as Sakya.Jikan wrote:
I think Sherab Dorje raised an interesting issue some time back that I'd like to bring us back to: the question of whether or to what degree the tulku system as developed in Tibet offers an efficient way to identify and train teachers and leaders when resources are scarce. Thoughts on this?
The Gelugpas appoint their leaders and teachers through education, not tulku lineages, with the notable exception of the Panchen Lama, who is the head of Tashi Lhunpo monastery. The Dalai Lamas are not monastic heads, but actually part of the Drepung Monastic system.
The leadership of Sakyapas is held in the Kohn family lineage. The abbocy of Ngor (a subsect of Sakya) is circulated among the scions of four families. It is only in the smallest of the Sakya subsects, Tshar, and Eastern Tibetan Sakya monasteries where tulkus play a significant role in the leadership of monasteries.
The leadership of Mindroling likewise is held in an old family, and is not tulku based.
Re: Recognising reincarnations
So you believe that hereditary religious leadership is better than the tulku system? Or do you prefer the Gelug model?Malcolm wrote:Not necessarily. Two major schools of Tibetan Buddhism do not operate this way: the largest, Gelugpa and as well as Sakya.Jikan wrote:
I think Sherab Dorje raised an interesting issue some time back that I'd like to bring us back to: the question of whether or to what degree the tulku system as developed in Tibet offers an efficient way to identify and train teachers and leaders when resources are scarce. Thoughts on this?
The Gelugpas appoint their leaders and teachers through education, not tulku lineages, with the notable exception of the Panchen Lama, who is the head of Tashi Lhunpo monastery. The Dalai Lamas are not monastic heads, but actually part of the Drepung Monastic system.
The leadership of Sakyapas is held in the Kohn family lineage. The abbocy of Ngor (a subsect of Sakya) is circulated among the scions of four families. It is only in the smallest of the Sakya subsects, Tshar, and Eastern Tibetan Sakya monasteries where tulkus play a significant role in the leadership of monasteries.
The leadership of Mindroling likewise is held in an old family, and is not tulku based.
PS The Dalai Lamas are tulku, are they not?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Recognising reincarnations
I think the Gelug model is best for the West.Sherab Dorje wrote:So you believe that hereditary religious leadership is better than the tulku system? Or do you prefer the Gelug model?
PS The Dalai Lamas are tulku, are they not?
HHDL is a tulku, however, the Fith Dalai Lama's recognition was fraudulent, according to his autobiography, and every one from the 8th to the 13th was selected by a lottery operated by the Qing dynasty Ambans.
M
Re: Recognising reincarnations
You are on thin ice here as both Gelug and Sakya recognize and train tulkus. Neither are completely devoid of tulkus although the relationship with the recognition can be different. You in fact note this wrt Sakya sub-sects. Your example wrt the office of the Dalai Lama is strained at best. In fact Gelug tulkus can indeed be sought (other than the Dalai and Panchen lamas).Malcolm wrote:Not necessarily. Two major schools of Tibetan Buddhism do not operate this way: the largest, Gelugpa and as well as Sakya.Jikan wrote:
I think Sherab Dorje raised an interesting issue some time back that I'd like to bring us back to: the question of whether or to what degree the tulku system as developed in Tibet offers an efficient way to identify and train teachers and leaders when resources are scarce. Thoughts on this?
Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Recognising reincarnations
All Tibetan lineages seek for, and recognize, tulkus. Sakya is run via family lineages, Geluk is run via "nomination" based on qualities. HHDL is not supreme head of Geluk lineage.
I think it can be safely said that Tulkus, and tulku recognition, are integral parts of all Tibetan lineages, and the system has, in fact, produced leaders in all lineages. This is not to say the Tulku System is not problematic, of course--this should be obvious to anyone with even a glancing familiarity with Tibetan culture.
Part of the "system" that we haven't really discussed here, is what happens AFTER recognition, enthronement, etc. THAT is what is interesting, IMO--the attention and training that is bestowed upon Tulkus is, IMO, in large part the basis of success, though of course "personality" of the Tulku plays a part.
Having a way of recognizing successful masters at an early age is not a bad thing, considering the time and energy needed to train someone to be a Loppon. But perhaps something else is needed--a method of delaying responsibility, and delaying conferral of power, until a tulku is trained and has reached maturity, demonstrates ability, and above all, desires to fulfill the role.
I think it can be safely said that Tulkus, and tulku recognition, are integral parts of all Tibetan lineages, and the system has, in fact, produced leaders in all lineages. This is not to say the Tulku System is not problematic, of course--this should be obvious to anyone with even a glancing familiarity with Tibetan culture.
Part of the "system" that we haven't really discussed here, is what happens AFTER recognition, enthronement, etc. THAT is what is interesting, IMO--the attention and training that is bestowed upon Tulkus is, IMO, in large part the basis of success, though of course "personality" of the Tulku plays a part.
Having a way of recognizing successful masters at an early age is not a bad thing, considering the time and energy needed to train someone to be a Loppon. But perhaps something else is needed--a method of delaying responsibility, and delaying conferral of power, until a tulku is trained and has reached maturity, demonstrates ability, and above all, desires to fulfill the role.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Recognising reincarnations
The dharma of BF Skinner?conebeckham wrote: Part of the "system" that we haven't really discussed here, is what happens AFTER recognition, enthronement, etc. THAT is what is interesting, IMO--the attention and training that is bestowed upon Tulkus is, IMO, in large part the basis of success, though of course "personality" of the Tulku plays a part.
I would argue that this is what seems to be happening in the west. A case in point is Trinlay Tulku (French/American trained in part by Shamar Rinpoche).But perhaps something else is needed--a method of delaying responsibility, and delaying conferral of power, until a tulku is trained and has reached maturity, demonstrates ability, and above all, desires to fulfill the role.
Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
"Most all-knowing Mañjuśrī, ...
Please illuminate the radiant wisdom spirit
Of my precious Buddha nature."
HH Thinley Norbu Rinpoche