An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Luke
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An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Luke »

I was thinking that it would be very interesting to have some sort of big outdoor festival for all types of Tibetan Buddhists.

One weakness of Tibetan Buddhism in the west seems to be that we often just huddle within our own sanghas and don't mix with Tibetan Buddhists of even slightly different lineages ("Oh, I don't talk to the people in that center much because they are Drikung Kagyu and I am Karma Kagyu" lol ). It would be nice sometime to celebrate what unifies all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism instead of what separates them.

Imagine 50000 Tibetan Buddhists of all diffent lineages filling some sunny meadow and chanting the Vajrasattva mantra together! I think that something like this could be quite powerful...

What are your thoughts about this?
Last edited by Luke on Wed May 20, 2015 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Luke wrote:I was thinking that it would be very interesting to have some sort of big outdoor festival for all types of Tibetan Buddhists.

One weakness of Tibetan Buddhism in the west seems to be that we often just huddle within our own sanghas and don't mix with Tibetan Buddhists of even slightly different lineages ("Oh, I don't talk to the people in that center much because they are Drikung Kagyu and I am Karma Kagyu" lol ). It would be nice sometime to celebrate what unifies all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism instead of what seperates them.

Imagine 50000 Tibetan Buddhists of all diffent lineages filling some sunny meadow and chanting the Vajrasattva mantra together! I think that something like this could be quite powerful...

What are your thoughts about this?

IDK up where I am the rime vibe seems pretty strong, all the time different lineages are hosting teachers from other lineages etc.

Anyway, if you go some initiations other than usually being indoor, that is (at least the ones i've done) what you end up with - i.e. there are people from different lineages attending an initiation.

I've seen video from Bhutan (I think) of huge groups practicing together though, does look cool.
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Luke
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Luke »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: IDK up where I am the rime vibe seems pretty strong, all the time different lineages are hosting teachers from other lineages etc.
Yeah, I suppose the degree of sectarianism varies from area to area.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Anyway, if you go some initiations other than usually being indoor, that is (at least the ones i've done) what you end up with - i.e. there are people from different lineages attending an initiation.
Hmm, you have a point. I guess I was thinking of a slightly more casual group practice. At an empowerment, everybody is usually focused so intently on what the lama is doing and on his instructions that they can forget about each other.
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've seen video from Bhutan (I think) of huge groups practicing together though, does look cool.
Yeah, it would be nice to get that degree of harmony and unity among us Tibetan Buddhists in the west.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Urgyen Dorje »

Many of us here practice together despite coming from different backgrounds. We made a conscious decision that it was more important for everyone to have a sangha where they could celebrate tsok and the like, than to make an effort to support one community over another. That was easy for us as we recognized all of the sectarian connections and resonances between our traditions, and felt we would be breaking samaya to turn our backs on some of the lamas we've shared in common over time. I guess one way of looking at this is that we made the choice to support sangha re community over sangha re political entity.

This has worked out well for us. We have a nice rich core group. Small but rich. Some of the more sectarian people haven't appreciated this as they felt their flavor wasn't being represented. At the same time they're not committed to pushing along a practice group to make that happen. Our lamas are generally pretty accepting of this, though sometimes they feel everything would be clearer if we just did vanilla and left strawberry alone. At the same time they appreciate that we're a small group in a small town and if we didn't do this many people would have no sangha.

So in practice we do Nyingma practices that cut across Ka-Nying lines, and privately we do our own thing, perhaps with friends. Miphams Shower of Blessings is pretty universal. So is Miphams Buddha sadhana and Vajrasatva. Some sang offering.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by ClearblueSky »

Makes me think of something like the Kumbha Mela. Would be interesting if there were some sort of Buddhist (or I guess Tibetan Buddhist) equivalent.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Ayu »

In my town there are some contacts between the different traditions. And I think, the more advanced the buddhists the less there are sentiments of separation.
The concentration on the own center is because of the limits of time and funds. Often there are interesting events going on in other sanghas of my town and I cannot participate, because there is the next lecture of my course in our centre. :shrug:

Some kind of "Kumba Mela" happened here when the Dalai Lama visited our town. I suppose only 10% of the visitors were real gelugpas.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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ClearblueSky wrote:Makes me think of something like the Kumbha Mela. Would be interesting if there were some sort of Buddhist (or I guess Tibetan Buddhist) equivalent.
Yes, something like that or in more western terms, something like a "Buddhist Woodstock." It wouldn't be so hard to set up like a music festival with lots of tents, some which are filled with Buddhist relics, some which are selling dharma items, some which have lectures on different Buddhist topics, some which have different Buddhist rituals being performed, etc. It could be something like a "carnival of Buddhism": "Vajra-stock" or "Lhasa-palooza." hehe
ClearblueSky wrote:Some kind of "Kumba Mela" happened here when the Dalai Lama visited our town. I suppose only 10% of the visitors were real gelugpas.
I went to a teaching of the Dalai Lama where I'm sure there were Buddhists from many different traditions, but most the audience members weren't Buddhist at all, so for me, it didn't have that powerful of a feeling of unified Buddhists. But I'm sure that every HHDL event is different.

It's true that some Vajrayana groups are very non-sectarian, but still most them are small and most of us western Buddhists are sort of "underground" and many of us are "nightstand Buddhists" or keep it hidden normally. It would be nice to have some large Buddhist event in which we could reveal our Buddhist side openly on a massive scale. Divided, we are kind of weak. United, we are much stronger.

My dream is to see thousands of Tibetan Buddhists (both western and non-western) marching through the valleys, the mountains, and the forests chanting mantras and praying for human rights and freedom in Tibet. :namaste:

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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Urgyen Dorje »

How about a big Guru Rinpoche festival?

It could be made like Kumba Mehla. Different monlams and pujas going on in different places. Different teachers giving teachings at different times. A drubchen tent where the Om Vajra Guru is unbroken. Food tents. Vendors. There could be some high profile wangs or transmissions. At night there could be a little ganachakra... some music and dancing. Lots of offerings.

Kumba Mehla has a geographic and astrological anchor. This wouldn't. The reason I shared my little story is that anything is possible if people have the intention. It can be hard to get people outside their comfort zones re sangha identities etc. with this stuff.

If one could get the offices of the HH's to endorse it that could help.

We can't copy what they did in Tibet. We have to create our own festivals and root them in the land.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Luke »

Urgyen Dorje wrote:How about a big Guru Rinpoche festival?

It could be made like Kumba Mehla. Different monlams and pujas going on in different places. Different teachers giving teachings at different times. A drubchen tent where the Om Vajra Guru is unbroken. Food tents. Vendors. There could be some high profile wangs or transmissions. At night there could be a little ganachakra... some music and dancing. Lots of offerings.

Kumba Mehla has a geographic and astrological anchor. This wouldn't. The reason I shared my little story is that anything is possible if people have the intention. It can be hard to get people outside their comfort zones re sangha identities etc. with this stuff.

If one could get the offices of the HH's to endorse it that could help.

We can't copy what they did in Tibet. We have to create our own festivals and root them in the land.
Ah! Now you have sharpened the vision! Yes, it could be exactly like that.

Perhaps I have just watched the Gandhi movie too many times lol , but I also feel the need for this massive crowd of western and non-western Buddhists to march somewhere to bring attention to the cause of Tibetan freedom. People from the festival could march peacefully through the center of whatever town/city is nearby to the festival grounds.

Another thing that makes me think is this photo from the "Million Man March" (at which probably only 400,000 people showed up). It makes me think what a "Million Man, Woman, and Transgender Buddhist March" would look like! (And throw in some virtuous animals owned by marching Buddhists as well! :D )
I know that there have been marches for Tibetan freedom before in the west, but I don't think any of them have had a truly massive crowd of western Buddhists before. People would think, "Oh my god! Where did all these Buddhists come from??" hehe

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According to this webpage, in 2010, there were 3.8 million Buddhists in North America, and 1.3 million Buddhists in Europe. Imagine how massive a crowd we would be if we all stood shoulder-to-shoulder! :D

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/glob ... -buddhist/
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

An interesting question on this subject i've thought about, is for westerners, would a thing like this better as a Tibetan Buddhist event, or simply a Buddhist event period? I mean there are things like refuge, Brahma Viharas etc. that are pretty universal.

Here in the PNW we have this organization called the Northwest Dharma Association that aims to have Mahasangha events, I find their efforts really inspiring, though the single event I've attended organized by them had such sparse participation it was a little disappointing, it was a good event. I do wonder if these kinds of events are destined to be off a little bit simply due to trying to be all things to all people, but I appreciate the effort for sure, and I hope it keeps up and flourishes.
http://northwestdharma.org/

At the very least, I think it's a very positive thing to know what other groups are up to, even if we don't interact with them regularly.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Johnny Dangerous wrote:An interesting question on this subject i've thought about, is for westerners, would a thing like this better as a Tibetan Buddhist event, or simply a Buddhist event period? I mean there are things like refuge, Brahma Viharas etc. that are pretty universal.
I think for a short one or two-day event or for a short political march, it could be good to have all types of Buddhists there.

But I think that for a longer event, such as a 5-day festival, it would be better to just have it be Tibetan Buddhist or perhaps just Mahayana Buddhist in order to avoid conflicts. I am thinking of E-Sangha as an example of what happens when all types of western Buddhists get together for a long period of time. There were many ongoing conflicts there and I think similar things might happen in real-life. Perhaps we just need a Dharma Wheel festival and in another location or at another time, a Dhamma Wheel festival! :D
Johnny Dangerous wrote:At the very least, I think it's a very positive thing to know what other groups are up to, even if we don't interact with them regularly.
I agree.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Ayu »

Luke wrote:...

But I think that for a longer event, such as a 5-day festival, it would be better to just have it be Tibetan Buddhist or perhaps just Mahayana Buddhist in order to avoid conflicts. I am thinking of E-Sangha as an example of what happens when all types of western Buddhists get together for a long period of time. There were many ongoing conflicts there and I think similar things might happen in real-life. ....
:smile: I don't agree. I'm sure, Theravadins and Vajrayanis would cope with being together for 5 days. :tongue:
In my experience the behaviour in meatspace is very different to online behaviour. Even if people do not agree at all, they refrain from insulting eachother and they keep polite in meatspace.
The problem is not being in different traditions but the dynamics in online discussions.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Ayu wrote: In my experience the behaviour in meatspace is very different to online behaviour. Even if people do not agree at all, they refrain from insulting eachother and they keep polite in meatspace.
The problem is not being in different traditions but the dynamics in online discussions.
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Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Luke »

Ayu wrote: :smile: I don't agree. I'm sure, Theravadins and Vajrayanis would cope with being together for 5 days. :tongue:
Yes, perhaps you are right. The grudges at E-Sangha took years to build up fully. 5 days isn't a very long time at all. :)


But what do you all think about the idea of several hundred thousand Tibetan Buddhists peacefully marching through a major world city to bring attention to the lack of human rights and freedoms in Tibet?

What is the biggest pro-Tibet protest in the west which has ever occurred? How many people were marching?
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Tensions between practitioners come from the practitioner's minds, not their dharma. Buddhists generally have more in common than in difference, and there is more common ground than basis for division. Some people need to pursue a very rigid approach as that allows them to have confidence in their path. Others don't. An event like this would largely self-select. Follows of the "one true sect" would be no-shows, leaving everyone else to chant metta prayers, OM MANI's, whatever.

Personally, I find creating something of a pan-Buddhist identity interesting and potentially useful. I generally try to get a taste of any dharma that comes my way, while keeping an identity of my own practice. There is a huge amount of richness in this time and place, and its sad to see people bunkered down, even within one lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, not to mention the entirety of the dharma.
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Luke wrote: What is the biggest pro-Tibet protest in the west which has ever occurred? How many people were marching?
Probably the first one of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Freedom_Concert
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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ClearblueSky wrote:
Luke wrote: What is the biggest pro-Tibet protest in the west which has ever occurred? How many people were marching?
Probably the first one of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Freedom_Concert
Those were great events, but I would imagine that most of the audience members were not actually Buddhists. It would be quite amazing and powerful to bring together 100,000 western Vajrayana practitioners side-by-side!

Has the "Free Tibet" movement ever organized a big march in the west like Mahatma Gandhi's famous Salt March?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_March

or like Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Selma March?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_M ... ry_marches
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Ayu »

It would be a wonderful thing.
But it deserves a functioning idea how to mobilize and bait many people and a good team to organize it properly.
This reminds me of this very old joke:
There was a job to be done and everybody was sure that somebody could do it.
Everybody thought that anybody would do it, but nobody realized that everybody had something else to do.
It ended up that everybody blamed somebody, when nobody did what anybody could have done.
:shrug:
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

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Ayu wrote:It would be a wonderful thing.
But it deserves a functioning idea how to mobilize and bait many people and a good team to organize it properly.
Yes, indeed. I think the key is to have a very famous and well-liked lama lead the march. The Salt March wouldn't have happened without Gandhi's charismatic personality, and the Selma March wouldn't have happened without MLK jr.'s charismatic personality. I think that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje would be the best choice to lead such an event because he is extremely respected and well-liked, and he is young enough that he still has a lot of physical energy.

I am well aware that I don't have all the answers. I am just brainstorming out loud here. But what does "business as usual" accomplish??
Tibetan culture in Tibet dies out a little bit more everyday, and the PRC keeps destroying Tibetan Buddhist historical sites and replacing them with their own propaganda Disney-like versions. Anything and everything should be tried!
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Re: An event for all Tibetan Buddhists?

Post by Adamantine »

Well there's a really big massively attended "monlam" or prayer festival in Bodhgaya every year, for each tradition separately: Nyingma, Kagyu, and Gelug - and I believe the Sakya monlam happens at Lumbini, the birthplace of the Buddha. I guess there has been a Rimé monlam at Bodhgaya but not sure if it's regular.

There has been a Rimé monlam started in New York upstate at a very swanky new age center by some western dharma teachers who some may find uninspiring or controversial, but some good dharma teachers did come together to attend. . . mainly just those based in the surrounding areas with a few exceptions. Now the next one will be in Portugal: http://www.rimaymonlam.org/en/

It would be great if there were a more official RImé monlam in Bodhgaya, for sure, led by HH the Dalai Lama. I did find a link to this one from 2012: http://kagyuoffice.org/gyalwang-karmapa ... e-prayers/

When HHDL gave the Kalachakra wang in Bodhgaya last I think it was sort of like a Tibetan Buddhist Khumba Mela from what I've heard. It was so overcrowded though without proper sanitation or shelter that it was easy for various viruses to spread like wildfire. So the massive groupings of people camped for days in close proximity isn't necessarily an ideal in some ways.
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