Active Protectors?

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undefineable
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Active Protectors?

Post by undefineable »

Hi
Quick question about dharmapalas / protectors of the Buddhist teachings in TB: Apart from something I read about protecting practitioners (presumably initiates) 'from themselves', do Protectors manifest in any way? I'm thinking particularly of direct action to prevent misassociation or misrepresentation of the dharma (or worse), for example by destroying the minds of those likely to create such situations
you wore out your welcome with random precision {Pink Floyd}
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Adamantine
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Adamantine »

undefineable wrote:Hi
Quick question about dharmapalas / protectors of the Buddhist teachings in TB: Apart from something I read about protecting practitioners (presumably initiates) 'from themselves', do Protectors manifest in any way? I'm thinking particularly of direct action to prevent misassociation or misrepresentation of the dharma (or worse), for example by destroying the minds of those likely to create such situations
You can read about some concrete examples of manifestations of protectors in guarding gompas in Tibet from Chinese desecration in Chagdud Tulku's autobiography Lord of the Dance. It's a must-read anyway.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
undefineable
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by undefineable »

{In case of doubt, I was thinking of myself in the example given - I wasn't wishing heavenly fire down on unorthodox practitioners!}
Last edited by undefineable on Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
you wore out your welcome with random precision {Pink Floyd}
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Adamantine
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Adamantine »

undefineable wrote:By the way I was thinking of myself in the example given
You think your mind is being destroyed by protectors?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
undefineable
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by undefineable »

Adamantine wrote:
undefineable wrote:By the way I was thinking of myself in the example given
You think your mind is being destroyed by protectors?
Haha! I didn't mean that _ {I understand this would breach the ToS in any case} - I just meant to angle it from the point of view of one's own practice, rather than the angle of demonising others
you wore out your welcome with random precision {Pink Floyd}
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Adamantine
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Adamantine »

Protectors are never about demonizing others, this is Mahayana Buddhadharma
not a black metal gang.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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ClearblueSky
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by ClearblueSky »

There are definite stories of concrete examples of worldly, visible activities. I remember this thread went into discussion and debate about it (for a bit, I should add that wasn't the only thing in the thread. I just remember it is all): http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 725&hilit=
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conebeckham
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Re: Active Protectors?

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There are stories in my lineage of visions of Mahakala Chagdrupa and the retinue being seen building a monastery for Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Karinos
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Karinos »

why don't you do Mahakala sadhana (for example) everyday for few years and see how your life is changing? :twothumbsup:
this way you will have direct experience of Dharmapalas activity yourself
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skittles
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by skittles »

undefineable wrote:Hi
Quick question about dharmapalas / protectors of the Buddhist teachings in TB: Apart from something I read about protecting practitioners (presumably initiates) 'from themselves', do Protectors manifest in any way? I'm thinking particularly of direct action to prevent misassociation or misrepresentation of the dharma (or worse), for example by destroying the minds of those likely to create such situations
Protectors seem to be able to do many things, including physically.

Practicing tantra with a wrong view, like no bodhicitta, can destroy your mind without a protector doing anything.

Protectors do go after people that are harming practitioners with harmful teachings or fake empowerments. Maybe some of you have heard the warning to not give an empowerment until you've accomplished the practice or the protectors will come after you.
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Lingpupa »

Karinos wrote:why don't you do Mahakala sadhana (for example) everyday for few years and see how your life is changing? :twothumbsup:
this way you will have direct experience of Dharmapalas activity yourself
I have to say that sounds unsettlingly close to the "chant for wealth" doctrines taught by some religious groups, including at least one nominally Buddhist one.
All best wishes

"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
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Karinos
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Karinos »

Lingpupa wrote:
Karinos wrote:why don't you do Mahakala sadhana (for example) everyday for few years and see how your life is changing? :twothumbsup:
this way you will have direct experience of Dharmapalas activity yourself
I have to say that sounds unsettlingly close to the "chant for wealth" doctrines taught by some religious groups, including at least one nominally Buddhist one.
how else you want to experience Dharmapalas? Waiting for miracles to manifest?
Dharmapalas are there to remove obstacles for your practice, but one need to practice...
Change happens in practitioner mind, and that's the real blessing of Dharmapalas.
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by pemachophel »

There are many "chant for wealth" practices in both Sutrayana and Vajrayana. With proper motivation, wealth can be quite useful to Buddhist practitioners. For sure, it can also be a huge impediment. But so can being poor.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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skittles
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by skittles »

Wealth ritual events tend to attract the most ironic practitioners.
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html
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Old Buzz
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by Old Buzz »

pemachophel wrote:There are many "chant for wealth" practices in both Sutrayana and Vajrayana. With proper motivation, wealth can be quite useful to Buddhist practitioners. For sure, it can also be a huge impediment. But so can being poor.
What use is it to practice religion to attain wealth? The Buddha says to simply gather one's pollen (or whatever is of value to one) harmlessly.

:namaste:
Proud yet humble practitioner of Bhramarayana Buddhism. Namo Buddhaya.

:namaste:
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skittles
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Re: Active Protectors?

Post by skittles »

HAhaha Did you make that account just for this Old Buzz?
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html
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