Vajra Guru Mantra Origin / Sanskrit Questions

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Was hoping someone more knowledgeable could help me with this.

In what text was the Vajra Guru mantra first recorded? Was it “The Syllable by Syllable Commentary” by tertön Karma Lingpa in the 14th century, or did it exist prior?

In the written origin of this mantra, as far as we know, was the sixth word written PADMA or PÄDMA? I had always thought Tibetans pronounced it PEMA because Tibetans sometimes pronounced things funny, but then I recently saw this: https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/edu ... mbhava.pdf which clearly shows a diacritic over the “A”. It could easily be a mistake though, considering how odd it is that all the other umlauts / diacritics are missing.

If this is the case, it seems nearly everyone is reporting the sanskrit mantra wrong as every other source online has it as PADMA (without the diacritic.)

Lastly, I’ve read from time to time on this board that some lamas transmit mantras in sanskrit. Do you know any lamas who transmit this mantra in Sanskrit? If so, who? And lastly, was it pronounced PADMA or PÄDMA?

Thank you for your help!

[Grigoris]

I imagine it was first recorded by Yeshe Tsogyal. Karma Lingpa then found it in the 14th Century.

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I imagine it was first recorded by Yeshe Tsogyal. Karma Lingpa then found it in the 14th Century.

Right. I was not disputing Yeshe Tsogyal as the original author of the commentary, I was just asking if this was the first text the mantra was recorded in. The commentary doesn't specify if it's a new mantra, just expands on it's purpose and benefits. For all I know the mantra was being used before the 14th century, and this text is just further teaching on the practice. If you're answering with knowledge that it is indeed the first written appearance of the mantra, then thank you.

My first question though was really just a lead-in to how the mantra was written in it's original text, as PADMA or PÄDMA?

[Malcolm]

I imagine it was first recorded by Yeshe Tsogyal. Karma Lingpa then found it in the 14th Century.

Right. I was not disputing Yeshe Tsogyal as the original author of the commentary, I was just asking if this was the first text the mantra was recorded in. The commentary doesn't specify if it's a new mantra, just expands on it's purpose and benefits. For all I know the mantra was being used before the 14th century, and this text is just further teaching on the practice. If you're answering with knowledge that it is indeed the first written appearance of the mantra, then thank you.

My first question though was really just a lead-in to how the mantra was written in it's original text, as PADMA or PÄDMA?

It is a guru name mantra. It is likely it goes back to the late 8th century. We have clear evidence for it by the 13th century in the works of Guru Chowang. It probably existed in Nyang Ral's termas as well.

[Zla'od]

I don't know the history of the mantra, or this text, but neither Sanskrit nor Tibetan have the umlaut "a" sound (like English "cat"). Tibetan vowels are sometimes modified by the consonent after them, which is why padme is pronounced "pay may" in (Central) Tibetan.

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Malcom, thank you very much, you answered my first question.

And, Zla'od, thank you! I had just assumed the Ä existed in sanskrit after seeing it in the FPMT's mantra pdf. I think this answers my question on FPMT's version of the mantra. It must be a mis-print or something.

[Grigoris]

Malcom, thank you very much, you answered my first question.

And, Zla'od, thank you! I had just assumed the Ä existed in sanskrit after seeing it in the FPMT's mantra pdf. I think this answers my question on FPMT's version of the mantra. It must be a mis-print or something.

When you received the oral transmission of the mantra, how did the teacher pronounce it? That is how you must pronounce it. Everything else is just monkey mind,

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Malcom, thank you very much, you answered my first question.

And, Zla'od, thank you! I had just assumed the Ä existed in sanskrit after seeing it in the FPMT's mantra pdf. I think this answers my question on FPMT's version of the mantra. It must be a mis-print or something.

When you received the oral transmission of the mantra, how did the teacher pronounce it? That is how you must pronounce it. Everything else is just monkey mind,

I was not asking about how to pronounce the mantra. I was asking about the original way the mantra was written. Whether Tibetans (or any practitioner) pronounce PADMA as PEMA or VAJRA as BENZA or how my teachers pronounce the mantra was not my point. I had seen, from a legitimate source (FPMT, as supplied above,) that the mantra was written with umlaut "A" in PADMA, and since I had never seen that before, it got me curious about the history and original sanskrit words that make up the mantra, both of which I know little about, as I imagine few do. This wasn't a practice question, it was a historical and linguistic question, which Malcom and Zla'od kindly helped answer.

And my last question, about which qualified teachers transmit (or just use in any capacity) the mantra with sanskrit pronunciation, was just to satisfy my own curiosity.