Blue robes/clothes

[tingdzin]

Oh, I see, Same as in Kunga Lhadzom's post.

[Grigoris]

The Buddha Boy sangha! Say hello to the next (of many) Maitreya cults. Let's see how this one pans out...

[Fortyeightvows]

The interesting thing is that it looks like western people on his right

[Palzang Jangchub]

If you pay close attention, many of the Tibetan monks wear shirt-vests with a bit of blue trim (especially around the shoulders/arm holes).

[Fortyeightvows]

If you pay close attention, many of the monks wear shirt-vests with a bit of blue trim (especially around the shoulders/arm holes).

They say that is out of respect for monks from china who helped re-establish full ordination.

[Palzang Jangchub]

Interesting. I was told by one of my Drikung lamas that is was because Shakyamuni Buddha mentioned that blue was one of the colors that sangha should wear (and I presumed this had something to do with the Vinaya scriptures). Thus the wearing of blue is being kept alive, even if literally under wraps.

When did full ordination for monks cease in Tibet and need to be reinvigorated/reestablished by Chinese monks? I was aware that full ordination for nuns had either ceased or not really been established in Tibet, and that many nuns go to Taiwan to become gelongmas, but there seems to be some disagreement based on two different sources of the Vinaya traditions (Tibetans follow the Mūlasarvāstivāda, while the only Chinese Vinaya in practice since the 8th century has been the Dharmaguptaka). This is the first I've heard of it having happened to monks, too...

For that matter, which Chinese Vinaya tradition was used at that time? At one point Sarvāstivāda, Mūlasarvāstivāda, Dharmaguptaka, Mahīśāsaka and Mahāsāṅghika Vinaya were all extant. If Dharmaguptaka was the basis, then all this about not being able to reestablish gelongma vows yet due to Vinaya discrepancies has been a smokescreen.

[_R_]

Shambala and people afflitied with it wear navy wool blazers.

I believe it's the modern version of the same outfit.

[Fortyeightvows]

If you pay close attention, many of the monks wear shirt-vests with a bit of blue trim (especially around the shoulders/arm holes).

They say that is out of respect for monks from china who helped re-establish full ordination.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=24577

[Bristollad]

If Dharmaguptaka was the basis, then all this about not being able to reestablish gelongma vows yet due to Vinaya discrepancies has been a smokescreen.

That certainly seems to be the opinon of Ven. Thubten Chodron - see her article: Mutli-tradition ordination (short version)

http://thubtenchodron.org/2007/07/chine ... t-lineage/

[Palzang Jangchub]

Yeah, I read that via an indirect source, but it was the same article. It appears that there's really no excuse for a lack of Gelongmas in both Nyingma and Geluk lineages, who follow the Lowland Vinaya that was used to ordain Gongpa Rabsel in that account.

However, Chomo Thubten Chödrön does note at the end of her article that Kagyu and Sakya lineages follow the Midland/Highland Vinaya, which comes from a slightly different source. So it appears that, as always, the situation is more complicated than it at first appears. I wonder what the actual differences are.

Interestingly, though, it seems the main push to get full Gelongma ordination (re)established is mainly from Kagyu sources, especially the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje. And they are taking the joint ordination approach with a dual sangha consisting of Chinese Dharmaguptaka Bhikshunis and Tibetan Mulasarvastivadan Bhikshus (following the precedent set when Gongpa Rabsel was ordained).

See:
http://kagyuoffice.org/gyalwang-karmapa ... rdination/
http://kagyuoffice.org/the-gyalwang-kar ... attva-vow/
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/features/e ... -tradition
http://nunscommunity.net/womens_issues.html

[Palzang Jangchub]

All of this, of course, presupposes that under Langdarma's rule Buddhist monasticism was nearly wiped out. Historians have been calling this traditional narrative of severe persecution into question, and some even assert he was a Buddhist king.

https://earlytibet.com/2008/03/13/did-l ... -buddhism/

[Bristollad]

I seem to remember Malcolm* once mentioning that actually all he did was reduce support to the monasteries - I guess if some President in the States managed to remove tax exempt status from Churches, he would be characterised as an enemy of Christianity and of all religion, the antichrist himself, by some.

The story seems to be common in Geluk circles as an explanation but as you point out, would seem to fail why most Sakya or Kagyu monks would have it (having a different lineage of the Mulasarvastivadin vinaya tradition). I've never managed to find exactly when the present Tibetan robes became the standard, and who was responsible for that standardisation. I remember once reading in a book by Thrangu Rinpoche that having a donka came about because monks in Indian-style robes wrapped their seating cloths (dingwa) around themselves to try and keep warm.

*That could easily be a figment of my imagination though