Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

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prsvrnc
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Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by prsvrnc »

This could come off like a strange-sounding or even sac-religious question, but are buddhas "ranked" in any way? I ask this because there was a passage in a book I read, "On Being Buddha: The Classical Doctrine of Buddhahood" by Paul J. Griffiths, that seemed to indicate this. Are some buddhas ranked higher than others?

An additional question -- why are some buddhas liked so much while other buddhas are liked less? If each buddha collected total merit, wouldn't they each be equally respected, equally popular...?

I remember reading something that Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche said about how there have been multiple buddhas in existence but that some were deemed to be two weird according to others and that as a result they did not have the opportunity to teach. No one wanted them to teach, or didn’t ask them to, at least. Sort of like people were put off by them. Point being — some buddhas seem to have more favor with others and thus more opportunities to teach, compared to other buddhas. Maybe this is partly what Griffiths was referring to when he mentions the “rank” of a buddha?

I have this idea that buddhas that get more activity with other beings, can more creatively help them, have sort of a better time than buddhas who stay by themselves and don't have the opportunity to teach. If HELPING OTHERS is what makes them happy, what about those buddhas who don't get as much of an overt chance? Do they really not care? Wouldn't it be more fun to be a stimulating buddha that gets to engage more in the conventional world?

I have a feeling this whole ranking idea is going to come off preposterous to others but I am still curious. I guess I should find the quotation… Thoughts anyone?
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Grigoris
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Grigoris »

Of course some Buddhas are better than others. Mine, for example, is the best.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by 明安 Myoan »

I hope this answer is helpful though it comes from a Pure Land perspective:
Chih I wrote:Question
All the Pure Lands of the Buddhas of the ten directions have equal qualities and virtues.
Their Dharma Nature is also the same. Therfore, the practitioner should meditate
on all the virtues of the Buddhas and seek rebirth in the various Pure Lands of the ten
directions. Why should he specifically seek rebirth in the Pure Land of one particular
Buddha (i.e., Amitabha)? Is this not contrary to the truth of “equally in seeking rebirth”?
Answer
All the Pure Lands of the Buddhas are, in truth, equal. Nevetheless, since the majority
of sentient beings in our world generally have dull faculties and defiled, scattered minds,
it will be difficult for them to achieve samadhi, unless they concentrate exclusively on one
realm.
http://www.purelandbuddhism.com/10Doubts.pdf

The answer goes into greater depth but that is the gist of one angle.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Vasana »

A Buddha is a Buddha because they have realized the 3 Kayas, therefore all Buddhas have an equal realization. There's no ranking.

Bodhisattvas kind of have Bhumi rankings but Buddhas are Buddhas.

Some are liked more or less because of the personal preference and resonance of beings. Sometimes they are liked more or less because of an individuals karmic connection with that Buddha from past lives. Sometimes they are liked more or less because of the aspiration vows that the Buddhas made when they were on the Bodhisatva path or before complete realization. Buddhas minds are equal but because of their vows and the varied needs of beings, they appear to represent specific qualities or promises that different people find appealing and relevant.

The activity of a Buddha isn't linked soley to their appearance in this human world. Some people attain Buddhahood and might benefit beings in countless other world systems or realms while living here.

A Buddha has infinite skillfull means so a Buddha never ceases in the appearance of helping people even if we dont percieve those appearances. It's also partly down to the capacity and karma of the beings in the vicinity of that partucular Buddha.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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Grigoris
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Grigoris »

Vasana wrote:A Buddha is a Buddha because they have realized the 3 Kayas, therefore all Buddhas have an equal realization. There's no ranking.
What about pratyekabuddhas?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Sherab Dorje wrote:What about pratyekabuddhas?
:jawdrop:
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by sillyrabbit »

Vasana wrote: The activity of a Buddha isn't linked soley to their appearance in this human world. Some people attain Buddhahood and might benefit beings in countless other world systems or realms while living here.
Mind blown.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Vasana »

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Vasana wrote:A Buddha is a Buddha because they have realized the 3 Kayas, therefore all Buddhas have an equal realization. There's no ranking.
What about pratyekabuddhas?
I don't know if Pratyekabuddhas have realized the 3 kayas.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by crazy-man »

i think, there are different types and ranks of Buddha:

A. Samyak-Sambuddha with 3 types:
1. Viriyadhika Buddhas, who achieve Samma-samBuddha-hood after 16 world cycles (asankheyya) and 100,000 aeonsof (mainly) effort;
2. Saddhadhika Buddhas, who achieve Samma-samBuddha-hood after 8 world cycles and 100,000 aeons of faith, Devotional, conviction (saddha); or
3. Pannadhika Buddhas, who achieve Samma-samBuddha-hood after 4 world cycles and 100,000 aeons of wisdom.

Gotama was a Panndhika Buddha, Metteya will be a Viriyadhika Buddha.

B. Pratyekabuddha
C. Sravakabuddha, Anubuddha, Arahat

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=26607
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys3/matanga.htm
http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... buddha.htm
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=677
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by ClearblueSky »

Sherab Dorje wrote:
Vasana wrote:A Buddha is a Buddha because they have realized the 3 Kayas, therefore all Buddhas have an equal realization. There's no ranking.
What about pratyekabuddhas?
It would depend who you ask. A Theravadin practitioner would not have that concept. With Tibetan Buddhism, I have heard (at least) two things regarding a Buddha such as Shakyamuni. 1. He actually did teach the 3 kayas, thus would be the same as any other in terms of "equal realization". 2. As with (what Mahayanaists) might say about arhats, it's not quite the full realization, or at the very least in terms of teaching. The main difference being realizing the emptiness of self but not quite fully the emptiness of all other phenomenon. Vs, realizing the full emptiness of both self and all phenomenon. When people started suggesting that arhats only got this partial realization, it was quite the big deal historically.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Ayu »

Sherab Dorje wrote:Of course some Buddhas are better than others. Mine, for example, is the best.
Not true. Mine is much better. :tongue:

(I hope, we don't have the same Buddha. :-/ ) :lol:
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Ayu »

My teacher says again and again: the different Buddhas are only many expressions of the same essence. Essencially there is not the faintest difference between the Buddhas. "They are the same!" Is one of his favorite claims.
Hence the question of better and lower seems to be absurd to me.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Anders »

Going by earlier mahayana sutras, there does seem to be a distinction between the accumulated merit of various Buddhas. Shakyamuni for example, attained Buddhahood relatively quickly and as a result, his buddhafield, the saha world, is rather mundane.

Whereas Manjushri has put off buddhahood for incalculable kalpas because he has wowed to create what will literally be the most incomparable buddhafield in existence (there currently exists only one like it) on a scale to make Sukhavati look tame.

From there to conclude that Manjushri is therefore doing a better job than Shakyamuni is probably jumping the gun. The impression I get from the sutra literature on wows and their potency is that there is very little 'merit math' incorporated into them - They are more distinguished by the truly heartfelt power behind them - And as such, them being individual and personal in nature just sort of comes with the territory of making wows - The wows of individual bodhisattvas are simply the vows that are most meaningful and heartfelt to them. And therefore the most powerful.

edit: Also, I agree with other posts that, on top of the above, our usual notions of individuality do not quite apply to the Buddhas.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by prsvrnc »

Anders wrote:Going by earlier mahayana sutras, there does seem to be a distinction between the accumulated merit of various Buddhas. Shakyamuni for example, attained Buddhahood relatively quickly and as a result, his buddhafield, the saha world, is rather mundane.

Whereas Manjushri has put off buddhahood for incalculable kalpas because he has wowed to create what will literally be the most incomparable buddhafield in existence (there currently exists only one like it) on a scale to make Sukhavati look tame.

From there to conclude that Manjushri is therefore doing a better job than Shakyamuni is probably jumping the gun. The impression I get from the sutra literature on wows and their potency is that there is very little 'merit math' incorporated into them - They are more distinguished by the truly heartfelt power behind them - And as such, them being individual and personal in nature just sort of comes with the territory of making wows - The wows of individual bodhisattvas are simply the vows that are most meaningful and heartfelt to them. And therefore the most powerful.

edit: Also, I agree with other posts that, on top of the above, our usual notions of individuality do not quite apply to the Buddhas.
Wow!!!! I find this FASCINATING!!! I have never heard of that... or heard it put this way.

"Whereas Manjushri has put off buddhahood for incalculable kalpas because he has wowed to create what will literally be the most incomparable buddhafield in existence (there currently exists only one like it) on a scale to make Sukhavati look tame."

^^ One way I can imagine this... it's like he cultivates pockets of potential, here and there... backing up billions and billions of beings.. (or just few at a time). Makes prayers... Because it took a long time, it's like there's more flourish behind them... more extravagant or more detailed... A creative build up. It isn't straight and narrow it is textured...

From what you said about vows... I find this very inspirational because.. it seems to be what you're saying is that... whatever prayers a bodhisattva makes, they WILL come true. And the more intention/energy they put behind them, the more successful they will be. Or the more power they will have..? But the message I get is that it's up to you... or it's up to the bodhisattva... And it all really starts or comes from mental power. This is so inspiring. Thank you.
"The impression I get from the sutra literature on wows and their potency is that there is very little 'merit math' incorporated into them - They are more distinguished by the truly heartfelt power behind them - And as such, them being individual and personal in nature just sort of comes with the territory of making wows"
^^ I guess I didn't understand what you meant by there being little merit math in them... sort of that, vows as such mean little if there isn't personal power behind them...
Do the prayers of buddhas have similar weight? Is a buddha really in charge of how their buddha field looks or is? If it is a manifestation of their own prayers, could we say that it's like, for each buddha, the best of all possible worlds in a sense? (Maybe comparable to the idea that upon attaining buddhahood they have no complains..). In this case, we could only rank relatively ("higher," "lower"), because they have actually actualized all their (dharma) wishes??? (almost as if to say, each buddha is the center (and therefore supreme) of their world.)
These are my unedited thoughts.

ALSO, I was going to ask: What kinds of sources did you find this information out of?? If you remember or care to answer. Thanks.
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by Boomerang »

prsvrnc wrote:ALSO, I was going to ask: What kinds of sources did you find this information out of?? If you remember or care to answer. Thanks.
You might like to read this thread.

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=19687
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Re: Are some buddhas "better" than other buddhas?

Post by kirtu »

Vasana wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Vasana wrote:A Buddha is a Buddha because they have realized the 3 Kayas, therefore all Buddhas have an equal realization. There's no ranking.
What about pratyekabuddhas?
I don't know if Pratyekabuddhas have realized the 3 kayas.
They haven't. Pratyekabuddhas are sometimes referred to as 1/2 Buddhas in the Mahayana and esp. in Tibetan Buddhism (HHDL says this often when the teaching arises). Pratyekabuddhas are not full Buddhas in Mahayana (and they aren't full Buddhas in Therevada either).

Kirt
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Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

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