“You Can’t Watch Pornos in the Monastery”: Tibetan Tantra, Imagined Pleasure, and the Virtuality of Desire

[Malcolm]

patriarchy-free porn

Would it have a plot line?

Who needs plots?

[dzogchungpa]

The purpose of karmamudra is to take desire into the path. If you have no desire, there is no need to rely on the path of messengers. Furthermore, from a Dzogchen point of view, as stated in the Tantra of the Union of the Sun and Moon, for example, the practice is beneficial only for men.

That's interesting, is there some explanation there, or anywhere, of why it is only beneficial for men?

Yes. The point is that female orgasm is not connected with the release of their own reproductive tissue.

So are you saying that, from this POV, the release of semen is necessary for the benefit that men derive from karmamudra? I guess I don't understand the principles involved.

BTW, it appears that a translation of that tantra was published last month.

[Malcolm]

[quote="dzogchungpa"]
So are you saying that, from this POV, the release of semen is necessary for the benefit that men derive from karmamudra?
[quote]

Yes. The bodhicitta descends, is held, reversed and than spread through the nāḍīs and cakras.

Jnānamudra practice is a mental exercise using the same principle with a visualized consort. Further, there is limited benefit of the partners involved are over 26 because of the degeneration of the physical body. The ideal age for this practice is between 16-26.

M

[Grigoris]

I support choice, not patriarchy. I don't think the solution is to try and control people's choices.

Neither do I. When somebody chooses to take monastic vows they should keep them, if they choose to not hold their vows they should not. But then they should not consider themselves as having acted within the bounds of their vows. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

Clearly, even you admit that patriarchy-free porn is possible,

Nope. Not according to the "strict" definition of porn based on its etymology.

...so the problem is not porn nor the graphic depictions of sexual acts.

No. For me porn is problematic. Graphic representations of sexual acts, on the other hand, especially in a correct context, are not problematic. A sexual education video depicting the act of sex is not pornography according to the "strict" definition.

[Malcolm]

I support choice, not patriarchy. I don't think the solution is to try and control people's choices.

Neither do I. When somebody chooses to take monastic vows they should keep them, if they choose to not hold their vows they should not. But then they should not consider themselves as having acted within the bounds of their vows. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

In fact, watching pornography is not major downfall. It is about the same level as drinking alcohol or killing animals, or watching combat for entertainment.

Clearly, even you admit that patriarchy-free porn is possible,

Nope. Not according to the "strict" definition of porn based on its etymology.

You think there sex work is impossible under matriarchy? I don't. As far as etymologies are concerned, language has two modes, diachronic and synchronic. Your definition is excessively synchronic and anachronistic.

...so the problem is not porn nor the graphic depictions of sexual acts.

No. For me porn is problematic. Graphic representations of sexual acts, on the other hand, especially in a correct context, are not problematic. A sexual education video depicting the act of sex is not pornography according to the "strict" definition.

[/quote]

What about modern tv shows that graphically depict sex acts? Literature which graphically depicts sex acts? Etc?

[BuddhaFollower]

BTW, it appears that a translation of that tantra was published last month.

Where?

[Stewart]

BTW, it appears that a translation of that tantra was published last month.

Where?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Kissing ... bc?ie=UTF8

[dzogchungpa]

BTW, it appears that a translation of that tantra was published last month.

Where?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Kissing ... bc?ie=UTF8

There's a new one by the same guy that just came out:
https://www.amazon.com/Pearl-Necklace-T ... 1539193004

Its title is kind of amusing in the present context.

[Norwegian]

Discussion of Wilkinson's translations here:

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2049

and here:

http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... 4&start=10

and a review of one of his translations here:

https://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Tantra ... ewpoints=0

[Yavana]

patriarchy-free porn

Would it have a plot line?

Who needs plots?

I wanted to start a business making Dharma-friendly, patriarchy-free porn, but I need someone to write the plot lines.

[Grigoris]

You think there sex work is impossible under matriarchy? I don't.

Don't know, haven't lived in a matriarchy. But it's role in patriarchy is pretty fracking clear.

As far as etymologies are concerned, language has two modes, diachronic and synchronic. Your definition is excessively synchronic and anachronistic.

ie It is not that it is not correct, it's just that it doesn't suit your argument.

Doesn't it concern you that your definition of porn would include a graphic sex education video in the category of pornography?

What about modern tv shows that graphically depict sex acts? Literature which graphically depicts sex acts? Etc?

I have already answered to this issue a number of times.

[Malcolm]

Doesn't it concern you that your definition of porn would include a graphic sex education video in the category of pornography?

Quite obviously it is included in many people's definition, given that funding for sex education in the US has been drastically reduced because of concerns some people have about obscenity.

What about modern tv shows that graphically depict sex acts? Literature which graphically depicts sex acts? Etc?

I have already answered to this issue a number of times.

No satisfactorily.

[Grigoris]

No satisfactorily.

Unfortunately my dear Malcolm, when it comes to social/political issues "satisfactory" for you happens to be anything that coincides with your view. Well it ain't going to happen on this one (it seems), so I am going to have to leave you unsatisfied. Personally I believe that my explanations until now have been quite clear and satisfactory. Now whether one agrees with them or not is a different story.

phpBB [video]

[mkn]

Would it have a plot line?

Who needs plots?

I wanted to start a business making Dharma-friendly, patriarchy-free porn, but I need someone to write the plot lines.

With no expectations, kinda hard to create the drama.

[A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha]

Not too long ago I wished they had the death sentence for prostitution, pimps and johns, & porn. My life was turned upside down finding out the man i was with for 26 years was a sex addict and addicted to porn, then prostitutes. I wanted to kill him or myself.
I suffered TREMENDOUSLY . Then one day i thought of how to stop obcessing about how horrible i felt, and decided to transform
the prostitutes into Goddesses/Dakinis, and the pimps and Johns into Gods & Daka's....and it's all bliss....now i feel much better !

But, i still think the sex industry is getting away with it...and stricter punishment is the only way to end it. I want it to end. It has ruined so many peoples lives. So much suffering...so much violence...so many innocent children traumatized....it's despicable.

Ultimately it is all an illusion. But........it's not. Sexual misconduct is heavy bad karma. Intension is everything.

[Malcolm]

But, i still think the sex industry is getting away with it...and stricter punishment is the only way to end it.

Right, because authoritarian solutions are always so effective...

[BuddhaFollower]

Christians bring their hangups on sex when they become Buddhist.

[A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha]

But, i still think the sex industry is getting away with it...and stricter punishment is the only way to end it.

Right, because authoritarian solutions are always so effective...

That's why the death sentence would be more effective than a slap on the wrist....Ninja Style...

[DGA]

But, i still think the sex industry is getting away with it...and stricter punishment is the only way to end it.

Right, because authoritarian solutions are always so effective...

That's why the death sentence would be more effective than a slap on the wrist....Ninja Style...

I can see that you're hurting still. But the problems in your relationship and your ex's conduct are his responsiblity and no one else's. If you want to ninja that guy around some--that's your business.

The truth is that a death sentence won't stop people from screwing in public or paying for sex or taking naughty pictures. Nor will a slap on the wrist. Actually a slap on the wrist sounds fun.

[A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha]

Well...in some Muslim countries they chop your hands off if you steal (and that prevents a lot of crimes)....maybe the sex organ being chopped off would be a better solution then.