Riwo Sang Chod

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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:34 pm

i have a riwo sangchod set but i havent done the practice yet. can you do it without empowerment. and is it effective in purifying karmic debts?

can you guys also give me good instructions and explanation the the practice of paying karmic debt. that is mainly my interest in doing the practice.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby michaelb » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:43 pm

There are a couple of Sang commentaries here:
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/topics/riwo-sangcho/
AFAIK, you don't need a wang to do it, but you should have the lung.
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:07 pm

what if i dont have the lung but will receive the wang very soon. maybe i can ask a nyingma lama who im going to meet in few weeks to bless me with the lung.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby conebeckham » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:20 pm

AFAIK, there's no "Empowerment" for Riwo Sangcho. You do need the lung, but if you do the practice with a Lama who is familiar with it, one time, that's really all you need.

Sang really is about cleansing one's place of practice or general environment, though....it's less about making the offerings to the guests, though of course that's part of it, but more about transformation of the environment. In particular, Riwo Sangcho, of Latsun Namka Jigme, is also a Dzogchen practice, actually....quite profound, if one really understands the sort of "offerings" being made, and the "environment" that is purified.
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:23 pm

what i think is most beneficial for my situation is to repay all the karmic debts to the beings that disturb my practice and cause lots of problems. i will ask the nyingma lama to bless me with the lung or to do the practice with me once.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby pemachophel » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:46 am

For sure Riwo Sangchod is effective for helping repay karmic debts. Karmic debtors are one of the four classes of recipients of the offerings generated by sang. When you get to the part where you say OM AH HUNG over and over again, be sure you visualize your offerings going specifically to this class of recipients with the intention that all karmic debts be repaid in full and thus eliminated. Mentally repeat this intention over and over again while saying OM AH HUNG. It will work. You can say the liturgy multiple times in one session. For instance, sometimes people are told to say sang the number of times equal to their age or 100x, 1000x, etc. Try to do sang every morning if you can. This is a very powerful and effective practice.

Good luck and best wishes.

:namaste:
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby ngodrup » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:58 am

conebeckham wrote:AFAIK, there's no "Empowerment" for Riwo Sangcho. You do need the lung, but if you do the practice with a Lama who is familiar with it, one time, that's really all you need.

Sang really is about cleansing one's place of practice or general environment, though....it's less about making the offerings to the guests, though of course that's part of it, but more about transformation of the environment. In particular, Riwo Sangcho, of Latsun Namka Jigme, is also a Dzogchen practice, actually....quite profound, if one really understands the sort of "offerings" being made, and the "environment" that is purified.


The associated wang is from Rigdzin Sog Drup and is in the Rinchen Ter Dzod. It is not required. Only lung is.
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:58 am

i will ask for the lung the next time i see the nyingma lama, i ve never met him before but i hope he can give me the lung.

someone said that it is enough that the lama is chanting or doing it with you. i have a cd where the whole practice is done, would it be sufficient that way ?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby heart » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:28 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:i will ask for the lung the next time i see the nyingma lama, i ve never met him before but i hope he can give me the lung.

someone said that it is enough that the lama is chanting or doing it with you. i have a cd where the whole practice is done, would it be sufficient that way ?


You don't need a Nyingma Lama for getting this "lung", most Lamas from most tradition will have this transmission. A cd is not enough, the person with the transmission need to have the intention to give it to you.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:45 am

well the nyingma lama is the closest lama looking from the point of view where i live.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:27 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:i will ask for the lung the next time i see the nyingma lama, i ve never met him before but i hope he can give me the lung.

someone said that it is enough that the lama is chanting or doing it with you. i have a cd where the whole practice is done, would it be sufficient that way ?


Depending on the lama, it may be permissible to receive the lung over the internet if it's streamed live. With that there is intention, and you are both present in that moment. Garchen Rinpoche has gone as far as to say that anyone who has received the lung can give the lung, and in their own native tongue. So perhaps a fellow practitioner close by can help you.

The main point of transmission is for you to get the blessings from the unbroken lineage. A recording on CD can "read" the practice to you, just as anyone who doesn't hold the lineage can read it to you. To my knowledge, there has to be 1) a lineage holder with the blessings, 2) intention to transmit, and 3) presence of mind by all involved.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

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ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby KonchokZoepa » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:40 pm

If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby Kunzang » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:58 am

Regarding the question about a requirement for empowerment for practicing Riwo Sang Chod: the version I practice, and I think it's the most common version, has self-visualization as Padmasambhava (i.e., as Padma Thodtrengtsal). So somebody more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the RSC itself doesn't require its own empowerment (just the lung), don't you need prior empowerment before you can do any self-visualization practice?
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby heart » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:19 am

Kunzang wrote:Regarding the question about a requirement for empowerment for practicing Riwo Sang Chod: the version I practice, and I think it's the most common version, has self-visualization as Padmasambhava (i.e., as Padma Thodtrengtsal). So somebody more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the RSC itself doesn't require its own empowerment (just the lung), don't you need prior empowerment before you can do any self-visualization practice?


Latsun Namkha Jigmes original version have no self visualisation, this was added by Dudjom Rinpoche in the version that you find everywhere these days.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby Kunzang » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:36 am

heart wrote:
Kunzang wrote:Regarding the question about a requirement for empowerment for practicing Riwo Sang Chod: the version I practice, and I think it's the most common version, has self-visualization as Padmasambhava (i.e., as Padma Thodtrengtsal). So somebody more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the RSC itself doesn't require its own empowerment (just the lung), don't you need prior empowerment before you can do any self-visualization practice?


Latsun Namkha Jigmes original version have no self visualisation, this was added by Dudjom Rinpoche in the version that you find everywhere these days.

/magnus


Thank you magnus.

Why was the self-visualization added?
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby heart » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:35 pm

Kunzang wrote:
heart wrote:
Kunzang wrote:Regarding the question about a requirement for empowerment for practicing Riwo Sang Chod: the version I practice, and I think it's the most common version, has self-visualization as Padmasambhava (i.e., as Padma Thodtrengtsal). So somebody more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the RSC itself doesn't require its own empowerment (just the lung), don't you need prior empowerment before you can do any self-visualization practice?


Latsun Namkha Jigmes original version have no self visualisation, this was added by Dudjom Rinpoche in the version that you find everywhere these days.

/magnus


Thank you magnus.

Why was the self-visualization added?


I don't know, but it fits in there perfectly. Probably people used to add in some deity practice there since this is usual in "sang" offerings, so Dudjom Rinpoche just wrote a short and fitting few lines to add in there as well as some dedication prayers in the end.

/magnus
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby pemachophel » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:50 pm

If you don't have a Guru Rinpoche initiation, then you can visualize Guru Rinpoche either above your head facing the same way you are or in the sky in front of you facing you. Shenphen Dawa Rinpoche, H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche's son, says either is OK.

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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:14 pm

Kunzang wrote:Regarding the question about a requirement for empowerment for practicing Riwo Sang Chod: the version I practice, and I think it's the most common version, has self-visualization as Padmasambhava (i.e., as Padma Thodtrengtsal). So somebody more knowledgeable should correct me if I'm wrong, but even though the RSC itself doesn't require its own empowerment (just the lung), don't you need prior empowerment before you can do any self-visualization practice?


The original version does not contain a self-visualization at all. The edition penned by Dudjom R., does, and in order to use it as such, one must at least have the lung, if not any suitable Guru P empowerment such as the Rigzin Sogdrup etc.
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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby pemachophel » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:54 pm

I agree with Malcolm: you have to have the lung. There's also lots and lots of ti (khri)/commentary/explanation that goes along with Riwo Sangchod. While you can practice without extensive teachings, IME, the more you get, the more effective the practice will be.

Good luck and best wishes.

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Re: Riwo Sang Chod

Postby conebeckham » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:37 pm

I was told that one can practice this, after doing it once with a qualified practitioner, and that would suffice as "transmission." But my version is not the widely-circulating Dudjom version with the Dak Kye added....

And I agree with Pemachophel--this is a very profound practice, actually, and the more explanation you can get from a good teacher, the more effective and energized your practice of Riwo Sangcho will be.....but I think you can practice the version, omitting the Dak Kye, without any sort of prior transmission.

We add prayers that others do not, BTW, if anyone cares. But not a Dak Kye.
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