Garlic

[kalden yungdrung]

Tashi delek,

I thought maybe very interesting to know, the use of garlic in our kitchen and body.

Garlic does destroy the micro living organisms in our body,
This does disturb the Gods outside our body and they feel themselves upset about this killing.
Result is the leaving of all those Gods etc. and misfortune would be the result.

The use of garlic and onions is by that in Bon not allowed and i guess this is a Tibetan custom.
Personal i do not use garlic and onions in my food and i feel fine by that.

I do not know further if garlic and onions are used in Tibetan medicine as a remedy........
This because if something can be used as medicine the product is allowed to use.

Mutosg Marro
KY

[heart]

Tibetan are a bit double about the use of garlic.

Student: What is the problem with garlic?

Lama: It is very bad, upset the mind and make many thoughts. You should not eat garlic.

Student: But when you do momos.....

Lama: Yes well, if you make momos you have to use garlic or else they don't taste good.

True story.

/magnus

[kalden yungdrung]

Tibetan are a bit double about the use of garlic.

Student: What is the problem with garlic?

Lama: It is very bad, upset the mind and make many thoughts. You should not eat garlic.

Student: But when you do momos.....

Lama: Yes well, if you make momos you have to use garlic or else they don't taste good.

True story.

/magnus

Tashi delek,

Thanks for your reply.

I thought that in Tibetan Tantra Traditions the use of garlic is anyway strictly forbidden.
It forms one of the Samayas.

Sure there are always persons who harm samayas without any special meanings /intentions.
But in Bon it is realy strictly forbidden to use garlic. With onions we are a little more free. This means when we cut off the core of the onion, the rest could be eaten. But also here the better way is to avoid the eating of onions as well of garlic.

So if in your true case story, a Lama would allow the eating of garlic then the fortune is easily gone.
If i will get a price in the lotery because i do not eat garlic?

But anyway i am convinced that the eating of garlic is killing our living micro organisms and that is not allowed in Buddhism the act of killing is a violation, so the Lama is not correct in allowing the use of garlic in the momus / mumus / momos.


Mutosg Marro
KY

[Dechen Norbu]

Tibetan are a bit double about the use of garlic.

Student: What is the problem with garlic?

Lama: It is very bad, upset the mind and make many thoughts. You should not eat garlic.

Student: But when you do momos.....

Lama: Yes well, if you make momos you have to use garlic or else they don't taste good.

True story.

/magnus

Fantastic!

[Josef]

So basically if you are dying of an infection you should just hope to get better rather than taking antibiotics.
This reminds me of when hardcore Christians in America pray for their kids to heal from serious illness rather than take them to the doctor.

[Adamantine]

In old Tibet your wouldn't be allowed into any monastery for three days if you'd recently eaten garlic, since it takes that long for a food to fully leave the system.
It does seem to be in most Tibetan cooking these days, I wonder if that's the Indian/Nepalese influence though.
Some wrathful Mahayoga practices may require otherwise forbidden foods, such as garlic, but I am not sure about this.
Usually in a retreat context garlic and onions would be avoided, at the least garlic-- garlic is considered to reduce the effectiveness and power of mantra practice.
I suspect Tibetan Medicine shares Ayurveda's perspective on garlic: it should not be used for food as it disturbs the subtle energy and raises the negative emotions-- but it also has medicinal uses for certain conditions.

[kalden yungdrung]

So basically if you are dying of an infection you should just hope to get better rather than taking antibiotics.
This reminds me of when hardcore Christians in America pray for their kids to heal from serious illness rather than take them to the doctor.

Tashi delek,

In relation to garlic is nobody dying etc. if he/she doesn"t eat garlic.
After eating garlic one has a bad smell.

But in Buddhism is the main point not to kill the micro organisms inside the human body and also not outside the human body.

Further are antibiotics also limited in case of prolongued use.
Even in case of serious infections it could be dangerous if the antibiotic does not work at all due to too much intake.
So a natural defence or the use of echinacea purpurea can better be taken too make the human immune system stronger.
But there are also many other alternatives then the chemical intake of antibiotics.

Mutog Marro
KY

[Pema Rigdzin]

In outer tantra like Kriya, Upa, and possibly also Yoga tantra, foods like garlic, onions, and several others are forbidden, but in the inner tantras of Maha, Anu, and Ati, there are no such considerations of restricting foods. As far as garlic killing microorganisms in the body, that sort of thinking seems a bit extremist. What are we even talking about here, certain bacteria?

[Josef]

So basically if you are dying of an infection you should just hope to get better rather than taking antibiotics.
This reminds me of when hardcore Christians in America pray for their kids to heal from serious illness rather than take them to the doctor.

But in Buddhism is the main point not to kill the micro organisms inside the human body and also not outside the human body.

F[/color]

I dont think the "main point" of Buddhism is to avoid killing gut bacteria.
We would indeed have a strange tradition if that were the case.
Pema Rigdzin also makes some excellent points in his post above.

[PadmaVonSamba]

The human body is made up of millions of microscopic cells.
Please tell me which ones are the ones eating the garlic
and I will bring the matter up with them on my lunch break.
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[username]

In TB higher yogas when doing certain practices and/or retreats, sometimes in some cases, the lamas specify no taking of garlic and onions and spices. Sometimes leeks are excluded too. Sometimes certain types of food, usually simple, is recommended as well as size of protions. So there is no general rule and varying advice depending on contexts of some practice retreats and if doing retreats best to ask the guru for such specific advice to see if restrictions apply, not the general internet. Healthwise, best to discuss that aspect in TTM subforum as well since Namdrol and sometimes a few others give great detailed case specific advice there and some of them might not see this topic.

[David N. Snyder]

An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

A garlic a day keeps everyone else away.

[username]

Another less well known saying I heard goes: garlic smells great when being fried but once eaten, that's another matter. My grandma used to say it is good when it's too damp and helps rheumatoid joints. Also till recent past it was associated prejudicially against the poor of Meditteranean origin. But now it's associated with post-Nouvelle cuisine gourmet cooking championed by the aspiring middle classes as trained by their Sunday supplements and their other currently hip taste gurus. The roots of not using it for tantrics goes back to ancient Hindus as aphrodisiac etc. Generally rich food, specially garlic as well as spices, do give a distorting tint to the vajra body and it's karmic vision.

[ngodrup]

In some cases of practicing mother tantras, garlic is recommended.
Especially, I understand if one is doing Tumm, in solitude I presume.
I heard one Geshe say that garlic is offensive on the basis of smell,
and no other reason.

[Adamantine]

I heard one Geshe say that garlic is offensive on the basis of smell,
and no other reason.

I can't speak for Gelug view but I have heard both Kagyu and Nyingma Lamas mention that garlic reduces the power and effectiveness of mantra practice.

[Indrajala]

Garlic is incidentally also avoided as per Buddhist texts in East Asia. There is even a set of bodhisattva precepts which includes a prohibition on eating garlic (and onions too). I imagine this comes from Ayurveda. It is said one will be prone to anger and lust if one eats garlic, so it is to be avoided.

One Vietnamese monk told me it is okay if it is just used for flavouring like when stir-frying something.

[Adamantine]

One Vietnamese monk told me it is okay if it is just used for flavouring like when stir-frying something.

As compared to what, freebasing it?

[Indrajala]

One Vietnamese monk told me it is okay if it is just used for flavouring like when stir-frying something.

As compared to what, freebasing it?

I guess Korean style garlic eating habits would be out of the question. Think whole cloves being eaten.

[Pema Rigdzin]

I heard one Geshe say that garlic is offensive on the basis of smell,
and no other reason.

I can't speak for Gelug view but I have heard both Kagyu and Nyingma Lamas mention that garlic reduces the power and effectiveness of mantra practice.

I've never heard that this is universally true regardless of circumstances. In fact, when I first received the inner tantric samayas, I misunderstood something I read in a text and thought that as an inner tantric practitioner I too had to abstain from garlic, onions, etc, but my Nyingma root lamas assured me that that is only a samaya of outer tantra practitioners. On the other hand, in at least one instance at a different time, they did mention that foods with garlic and other pungent and spicy ingredients can agitate the winds and so it can be helpful for relative beginners at inner tantra to eat more calming-type foods (particularly while on retreat) until they gain more experience and stability.

So I have a hard time believing that these foods magically diminish mantra recitation point blank, but that there could be the potential for them to cause agitation that would be less than ideal. For inner tantric practitioners, I think it depends on one's constitution, one's baseline state of health, how stressed one is, whether one is accustomed to eating spicy or pungent food, and the degree of strength in one's practice. Other than that, I can see how doing practices involving offerings to worldly beings - say sang or chod or something - while giving off odors that disturb those guests would be problematic.

[Adamantine]

I never said anything about samayas...

But there is a reason it would be avoided in retreat, with
perhaps the exception of certain practices
where the negative effects can be consciously
transformed.

Tibetans usually use it for flavor, including Lamas,
and not because there is any virtue in using it. I think
it's generally understood to be problematic, as is said
of eggs, radish, etc but usually the taste for these
things wins out unless there is a specific proscription for a practice
such as no eggs during Naga practice or no garlic during Whit Tara.

But I know a Lama who avoids garlic all the time, and he practices
Troma and Dzogchen--- he is no 'lower' Tantra practitioner