Favorite Lankavatara commentaries/versions?

[Johnny Dangerous]

Gonna buy some things with my birthday money.

What are people's favorites commentaries on the Lankavatara, has anyone read Red Pine's, and what did you think of it?

[Johnny Dangerous]

Anyone? Someone has to be a Lankavatara fan...

[Urgyen Dorje]

I was hoping for the answer myself...

Anyone? Someone has to be a Lankavatara fan...

[Aemilius]

I think you'll have to buy both D.T. Suzuki and Red Pine translations. The Sagathakam verses are found only in the Suzuki translation, and they are really essential in my experience. Also, the vegetarianism chapter in Suzuki has a significant difference to the Red Pine translation, which is crucial in my view. And for other things too you need them both.

[Johnny Dangerous]

I think you'll have to buy both D.T. Suzuki and Red Pine translations. The Sagathakam verses are found only in the Suzuki translation, and they are really essential in my experience. Also, the vegetarianism chapter in Suzuki has a significant difference to the Red Pine translation, which is crucial in my view. And for other things too you need them both.

Yay, somebody answered. Thanks, I will start with the Red Pine version then, I am pretty sure the Suzuki version is the one I have already spent time with.

[Johnny Dangerous]

So, FYI i'm a bit of the way into the Red Pine version, and MAN is it different so far than the Suzuki version.

As I understand there is a whole first portion that Red Pine adds from one of the versions (Gunabhadra I think) that is not in the Suzuki version.

So far I highly recommend Red Pines version, it's very readable, well , explained, and the notes are fantastic.

[Sweepingleaves]

Greetings all,

I have just started the Red Pine translation and am about 25% through - around the part where the Buddha explains the different types of emptiness. So far I think it's a fantastic translation and the notes are very helpful in clarifying some of the teachings, especially those relating to very early forms of Buddhism & other sects teachings.

The notes also include some of the differences between the various translations - Susuki, Gunabhadra,Bodhirucci etc

Thoroughly recommend.

[Dan74]

I haven't red Red Pine's Lanka yet. He is a wonderful translator with all the annotation he does but the people in the know say he is not really accurate (Ven Huifeng commented on this when the Lanka first came out). So be warned.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Accurate how, etymologically? I wouldn't expect he'd be that, no. That is not the only kind of accuracy either though, sometimes it's a question of the spirit of the law vs. the letter, so to speak.

I don't think Suzuki's version is lauded for it's accuracy either, is it?

[Dan74]

No, Suzuki's version is not highly regarded, you're right. But according to Ven Huifeng, Red Pine is similarly on the side of free interpretation rather than faithful rendition, if I recall correctly. I will dig up the thread and edit this post (on the phone now).

[seeker242]

No, Suzuki's version is not highly regarded, you're right. But according to Ven Huifeng, Red Pine is similarly on the side of free interpretation rather than faithful rendition, if I recall correctly. I will dig up the thread and edit this post (on the phone now).

Are there any that are highly regarded?

[Dan74]

No, I don't think so, but there may be something in the works...

By the way, here's one thread on ZFI about this translation, I thought there was another but didn't find it just now.

http://www.zenforuminternational.org/vi ... =17&t=7518

[Losal Samten]

Has anyone read Cleary's version? How is it? Any comparison between it and Red Pine's?

[Jeff]

Here is an excellent version...

http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm

[Zhen Li]

I can't speak to the Chinese, but I was going through Red Pine's translation with the Sanskrit alongside (which he apparently did consult). I'm quite impressed, and the accuracy, after being filtered through Chinese and into English, is quite uncanny. The same cannot be said for Suzuki's. If you want the extra verses from Suzuki, go to him for only those, otherwise, I'd recommend sticking with Red Pine's edition, which isn't actually that free, in my opinion.

[Johnny Dangerous]

I can't speak to the Chinese, but I was going through Red Pine's translation with the Sanskrit alongside (which he apparently did consult). I'm quite impressed, and the accuracy, after being filtered through Chinese and into English, is quite uncanny. The same cannot be said for Suzuki's. If you want the extra verses from Suzuki, go to him for only those, otherwise, I'd recommend sticking with Red Pine's edition, which isn't actually that free, in my opinion.

He also explains his methodology pretty extensively in the notes, including from where he is taking certain parts of the sutra, and why. This (at least to someone like me, admittedly ignorant of languages) seems pretty solid, and his version has a large amount of explanation of why he did what he did.

[Losal Samten]

Useful review from Amazon.

Vijnana:
I've been reading this translation along with the classic Suzuki translation and the Red Pine translation, and Cleary is somewhat easier to read and smoother than Suzuki (mostly because Cleary translates the vast-sounding names and technical jargon), but occasionally the translation is not in anything like readable English (see below), and it is worth noting that the Cleary translation has no apparatus, and no introduction, etc. I would certainly advise having the Suzuki translation (which has a long introduction) to hand and the Red Pine, if you are really going at this sutra. Even better would be to have the Suzuki "Studies in the LS", because in the back of it is a substantive glossary to his translation. The Red Pine translation has extensive notes, many of which refer to the Sanskrit original (Red Pine's is from the Chinese), that Red Pine admits he cannot read. For the interested reader, here are three versions of the same piece (from section VIII of Chapter II, in the Suzuki numbering):

Seeing the three realms of existence as caused by the impressions of mistaken ideas elaborated since beginningless time, by mindfulness of the non-origination of the imageless stage of buddhahood, having attained the ultimate truth first hand, the master of one's mind, having attained effortless practice, like a jewel of all colours, maintains certainty in the orderly combination of the steps of the stages by means of subtle created forms entering the minds of beings, through understanding mind alone. - Cleary

Who sees that the habit-energy of projections of the beginningless past is the cause of the three realms and who understands that the tathagata stage is free from projections or anything that arises, attains the personal realization of buddha knowledge and effortless mastery over their own minds. And like gems capable of reflecting every colour, they enter the subtlest thoughts of other beings and in their apparation bodies teach them `nothing but mind' while establishing them in the sequence of stages. -Red Pine

Perceiving that the triple existence is by reason of the habit-energy of erroneous discrimination and false reasoning that has been going on since beginningless time, and also thinking of the state of Buddhahood which is imageless and unborn, [the Bodhisattva] will become thoroughly conversant with the noble truth of self-realization, will become a perfect master of his own mind, will conduct himself without effort, will be like a gem reflecting a variety of colours, will be able to assume the body of transformation, will be able to enter into the subtle minds of all beings, and, because of his belief in Mind-only, will, by, gradually ascending the stages, become established in Buddhahood. - Suzuki

It is noticeable that there are different choices (e.g. is there one 'being' established in Buddhahood, or many?) being made here. Finally, it is worth noting that the Red Pine translation does not include the final chapters that were added on later to the core. Having slogged through the Sagathakam -- a miscellaneous grab bag of earlier sections and some additional thoughts that are occasionally intriguing -- I don't miss that one at least. The added chapter on meat eating is, however, worth reading.

[Zhen Li]

I personally don't see where one is reading multiple individuals being established in Buddhahood. It seems like they're all talking about one subject. However, I do see some serious divergences between Red Pine and Suzuki here grammatically. But the meanings are roughly the same: "X, which is ABC etc., will Y, and as such be DEF."

Cleary, frankly, seems to sometimes just rush through his translations without trying to understand what is being said first. Also, as much as I find it irrelevant to judge translations by their terminology (since in the end, terminology is simply saying "let A stand for B"), rather than understanding of grammar and ease of reading, I don't agree that Cleary's translations of so called "jargon" helps, especially since there are often quite well established sets of terminology in English for such terms, which he just ignores, as if translating in a bubble (one could go on about this forever). Yes, he puts in a lot of effort and cranks out a lot of results, but the quality isn't always the best.

[Bakmoon]

I've read most of Red Pine's translation and portions of Suzukis, and I must say that I much prefer Red Pine's version. I've heard some people talk about inaccuracies, but without seeing a specific examples, I'd have to say that I think Red Pine did a good job.

[Aemilius]

Useful review from Amazon.

It is noticeable that there are different choices (e.g. is there one 'being' established in Buddhahood, or many?) being made here. Finally, it is worth noting that the Red Pine translation does not include the final chapters that were added on later to the core. Having slogged through the Sagathakam -- a miscellaneous grab bag of earlier sections and some additional thoughts that are occasionally intriguing -- I don't miss that one at least. The added chapter on meat eating is, however, worth reading.

You can't know for certain that "the later chapters were added later". It is merely a modern way of thinking. It is also possible that the original Lankavatara in 30 000 lines has existed at one time, and what remains is bits and pieces from it.