Educated to be employees (USA)

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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tlee
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Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by tlee »

There is an idea in business that if you want to make a substantial income the easiest and smallest risk route is to become an intermediate between people who work and people who pay. This can take many forms; for example: health insurance coming between doctors and patients, cleaning businesses coming between house cleaners and clients, landscaping companies coming between laborers and clients, and restaurant owners between cooks and hungry people.

In these cases someone does work they could have done independently for a higher pay, but because they choose not to or are unable to work independent of the intermediate they are paid less and are subordinate. And because of this relationship the intermediate makes a substantial profit that is in proportion to the number of people they hire, allowing them to "skim" millions from people capable of operating independently.

I remember watching CSPAN over a year ago where teachers were debating the "Common Core" and challenging it on the basis that it was meant to create employees rather than educate with useful life preparing information.

Something that has stood out to me as lacking in curriculum of public schools is exactly what is needed to operate independent of employers: knowledge about taxes and personal finance. This is another conspiracy: to secure obligate employees for anyone who wishes to make an easy profit.

This is my suggested solution:
I would like Buddhist organizations to offer classes about taxes and personal finance to release people from dependence on employers.
I would like all US American Buddhists to become knowledgeable of taxes and personal finance.

I recognize this is not a Buddhist subject, but the need is too great to ignore and it is preventing some people from attending teachings and completing their retreat commitments.

By allowing employers to skim your pay (substantially) for decades may mean you cannot retire, you have longer work hours, you lack the funds to do 3-year retreats, you lack the ability to take off work for teaching cycles or retreats, you can't fund teachings or monastics, and you potentially can never quit your job without becoming homeless due to the debt of making less than the cost of living.
madhusudan
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by madhusudan »

I agree that the Prussian education model is terrible - if the purpose is to educate independent critical thinkers. But, as you point out, that is not its purpose at all. It was designed to instill obedience to authority and it works like a dream.

The fact that government education is compulsory is an added affront.

John Taylor Gatto and Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt are two valuable resources to learn about the history of this topic.

Here are two issues I raise in order to clarify the subject:

Could you explain your idea further? I am having trouble with what seems to be the conflation of two issues. The first being the "skimming" of workers' value and the second being a lack of education in the areas of taxes and personal finance.

To play devil's advocate, could it not be argued that rather than "skimming" from workers, business owners make central outlets where it is possible for workers and customers to connect in a convenient way? Of course, they do this at considerable personal financial risk - thus justifying their "cut".
Sherlock
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by Sherlock »

I think that's a great idea, and overall it would be good to have Buddhist communities financially networking and building business relationships and so on.

Some may say this leads to perpetuating the eight worldly dharmas, but I respectfully disagree, it's how Buddhism spread from the Buddha's time, along trade routes from India. Inscriptions from India, the Sravaka texts, the Vinaya, all point toward the fact that business relationships were very important in the spread of Buddhism. Today, one of the reasons Protestant Christianity is spreading quickly throughout Asia is that it provides a venue for people to network. Buddhism actually can, and historically did fulfill that function too.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

As an American, with a school age kid, here's my thoughts:

As far as being "skimmed" from, most of this is not due to lack of knowledge about things like taxes, but due to other factors where one is constantly pushed into paying middlemen in our society - banking/finance/payment methods are one of the biggest examples of this, a total racket all around really. People won't start magically being successful or independent here because they've been taught personal finance (though that's a great thing of and within itself)..they will start being more independent when they realize the myriad ways that American financial culture, pop culture, tech/gadget culture is perpetually sucking them dry, and decide it's time to realign their priorities. In addition, it gets harder and harder, rather than easier..for small business to survive, so just teaching people those skills alone won't help if the capability to actually do it is so minimal - for a host of reasons. I assume this is what you mean by "work independently", but i'm not sure.

I agree 100% that common core is about employee creation, I have uttered those exact words to school administrators lol. I think more than than just teaching personal finance though, for this to change people need to have a set of values that transcend just being an employee and buying lots of shiny stuff. We didn't end up with common core by accident, America is obsessed with maintaining it's position and competing globally by producing better employees.. The prevalent culture here is just that, "success" means a job with money to buy lots of status, and the educational system has come to reflect that.. I think on a larger level some of the infrastructure builders in education want a workforce that can compete with China somehow too..though I can't imagine how that's possible.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
tlee
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by tlee »

Let's do it then.
We can start with our Buddhist communities and, when we have enough strength, make it a national priority to educate youth and adults in business, finance, and taxes.
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by Karma Dorje »

tlee wrote: I recognize this is not a Buddhist subject, but the need is too great to ignore and it is preventing some people from attending teachings and completing their retreat commitments.

By allowing employers to skim your pay (substantially) for decades may mean you cannot retire, you have longer work hours, you lack the funds to do 3-year retreats, you lack the ability to take off work for teaching cycles or retreats, you can't fund teachings or monastics, and you potentially can never quit your job without becoming homeless due to the debt of making less than the cost of living.
I kind of feel like this is losing the plot. In my experience, people don't go into retreat because they really don't want to go into retreat. The money issue is an excuse. Most people are content for their Dharma practice to be an interesting hobby (and there are much worse hobbies than praying for the benefit of others). Some serious practitioners want to remain in the world without doing long-term retreat, as ChNNR suggests. Those that have a really strong desire for liberation will always find a way to simplify their life and get enough resources whether in our out of retreat.

One doesn't have to become a businessperson to do this. Save a couple or three thousand dollars and go to a country with a very low cost of living like Ecuador, Peru, Nepal, etc. Or just invest in some quality camping gear and go to a place where the climate isn't extreme. Volunteer at a resident center. Crowdsource the funding. Find someone to sponsor you. Padmasambhava made a vow that if someone is practicing seriously, they will always have what they need to sustain them. The question becomes: what will you give up to achieve your goals? Having a girlfriend or boyfriend? Having the latest iDevice? Having new clothes? A car?

There are many, many Vajrayana methods to increase one's prosperity so that one can practice Dharma fully. Would it not be better for the focus to be on teaching and practicing these than worrying about personal finance and taxes?
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
tlee
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by tlee »

Karma Dorje, you seem to be unaware of the poverty and cost of living in this country and the true danger of becoming homeless even once.

I have no confidence in wealth rituals personally as I have never seen them work. I would not rely on them.
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by Karma Dorje »

tlee wrote:Karma Dorje, you seem to be unaware of the poverty and cost of living in this country and the true danger of becoming homeless even once.
On the contrary, I am well aware of it. I was homeless more than once in my youth. The dangers are not any more than most other countries in the world. In fact, there are more safety nets in the US than countries like India, Nepal, Peru, Brasil, etc.
tlee wrote:I have no confidence in wealth rituals personally as I have never seen them work. I would not rely on them.
If you have no faith in the methods of Vajrayana, yet tremendous faith in studying the workings of gain and loss then what can I say? I have watched lots of friends say that they were going to make money to go into retreat and go to teachings, etc. Invariably now they have expensive mortgages, cars, demanding spouses and all sorts of distracting toys. You must still be young not to find all this senseless activity exhausting. Can we not take Guru Rinpoche at his word when he says that he guarantees that anyone who wants to practice the Dharma night and day will always have enough to eat?
Jetsün Drakpa Gyaltsen wrote: To contemplate the suffering of conditioning,
See how there is never an end of things to do,
And suffering is found among the many and the few,
Among the well-off and the starving alike.
Our whole human life is spent preparing,
And in the midst of our preparing, we are swept away by death;
But not even in death is there any end to preparation,
As once again we begin making ready for the next life.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
tlee
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by tlee »

Karma Dorje, the Vajrayana I know revolves around destroying delusions and perfecting activity to benefit beings; not wealth rituals.

What are your reasons for why people should not be educated in taxes, finance, and business?
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Educated to be employees (USA)

Post by Karma Dorje »

tlee wrote:Karma Dorje, the Vajrayana I know revolves around destroying delusions and perfecting activity to benefit beings; not wealth rituals.
The Vajrayana has countless methods to perfect activity to benefit beings. As I am sure you are aware this includes methods to heal, extend life and increase prosperity. What is the ultimate prosperity? To have the opportunity and leisure to practice the genuine Dharma without distraction. It is to this end that these practices should be applied: i.e. to have the opportunity to practice in a perfect way. My experience is exactly the opposite of yours: When people are genuine about wanting to practice, they always have enough. Not to be wealthy in a conventional sense, but to have *leisure* and *opportunity* and to meet with the liberating instructions.

The only times I have seen prosperity rituals not work is when people have little faith in them, have adharmic desires and lack generosity and compassion.
tlee wrote:What are your reasons for why people should not be educated in taxes, finance, and business?
I am not against people being educated in whatever they like. That's really none of my business. But there are plenty of places to learn to practice samsara. We don't lack for these. On the other hand, people have precious little opportunity to learn how to get free of it. I challenge your assertion that people go into business so they can do extensive retreat. I don't think anything could be further from the truth. If people are committed to going into retreat, they should simply do so while they have their youth and motivation. None of us know whether we are going to die tomorrow or next year. It is very easy to become distracted when you meet with worldly success.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
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