European refugee crisis

[kirtu]

The vast majority are not. Even so, there can be provincialism even without overt nationalism.

Tell that to Algerian kids in France...

You are correct about that. Unfortunately the same (or similar) is true for any North African descended kid and almost any Arab kid as well.

Just like the prejudice against African-Americans, many Hispanics and American Indians in the US.

There aren't that many differences, except that Americans to their credit have been addressing both overt and subtle racism while the French just seem to flounder along. However I haven't seen this up close for over 20 yrs now. Hopefully the French have at least begun to address the issues.

Kirt

[Malcolm]

The vast majority are not. Even so, there can be provincialism even without overt nationalism.

Tell that to Algerian kids in France...

You are correct about that. Unfortunately the same (or similar) is true for any North African descended kid and almost any Arab kid as well.

Just like the prejudice against African-Americans, many Hispanics and American Indians in the US.

There aren't that many differences, except that Americans to their credit have been addressing both overt and subtle racism while the French just seem to flounder along. However I haven't seen this up close for over 20 yrs now. Hopefully the French have at least begun to address the issues.

Kirt

Well, no. I think that European xenophobia is greatly exacerbated compared that that of Americans in general, that at least is my experience of Europeans.

[Dan74]

I don't think lumping Europeans under one banner is justified. The variability is huge even within one country.

If we take Switzerland, for instance, the voting and survey records vary massively between a cosmopolitan centre like Geneva and a rural parochial inner Canton like Schwyz or Glarus. In Italy there is a lot of variation in attitudes between north and south too. And in Sweden, there is very little racism.

_/|\_

[Rinchen Dorje]

Wondering why Saudi Arabia hasnt been taking in any refugess? But on the brighter side they are offering to build hundreds of mosques in Germany:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96211.html

and they are kicking out 10 million dollars to build Sharia Law center at Yale University:
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/saudi ... aw-center/

Things that make you go hmmm...

[Loren Enders]

Seems like the most compassionate thing to do would be to help them get to Europe safely.

[lostitude]

Wondering why Saudi Arabia hasnt been taking in any refugess? But on the brighter side they are offering to build hundreds of mosques in Germany:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96211.html

and they are kicking out 10 million dollars to build Sharia Law center at Yale University:
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/saudi ... aw-center/

Things that make you go hmmm...

Given how non-Saudi Muslims are treated in that country, I perfectly understand why no-one would want to settle there... even if the borders were open to them.

[kirtu]

Tell that to Algerian kids in France...

You are correct about that. Unfortunately the same (or similar) is true for any North African descended kid and almost any Arab kid as well.

Just like the prejudice against African-Americans, many Hispanics and American Indians in the US.

There aren't that many differences, except that Americans to their credit have been addressing both overt and subtle racism while the French just seem to flounder along. However I haven't seen this up close for over 20 yrs now. Hopefully the French have at least begun to address the issues.

Kirt

Well, no. I think that European xenophobia is greatly exacerbated compared that that of Americans in general, that at least is my experience of Europeans.

In the above I was specifically referring to the French. Of course you can find xenophobia displayed openly at times in Eastern Europe still. I did not experience it or see it in Poland but my Hispanic ex and I were mostly in cities. You will not really find xenophobia in Holland (except that the Dutch do assert xenophobia within their ranks and obviously there has been conflict in the society which has risen in intensity since the 90's as exemplified by the murder of Theo van Gogh and the work and treatment of the Somali-Dutch-American former lawmaker and activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali). And I was shocked by xenophobia displayed toward some immigrants by two young German friends, one in Nuernberg and the other in Berlin.

I have seen nothing in Holland, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Austria, Italy, or Spain that comes close to the normal and daily prejudice shown to American-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, sometimes still Asian-Americans and definitely American Indians. Nothing close. For many people of those groups life is a daily confrontation with de facto le Penites or German Neo-Nazis just appearing in the form of a white person born and raised in the US. And now with the anti-Muslim sentiment openly spoken of in the US, it is quite shocking.

However we all do have different perceptions and experiences.

Kirt

[kirtu]

Kerry: US to accept more refugees

The U.S. will accept 85,000 refugees from around the world next year, up from 70,000, and that total would rise to 100,000 in 2017, Kerry said at news conference with German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier after the two discussed the mass migration of Syrians fleeing their civil war.

Many, though not all, of the additional refugees would be Syrian, American officials have said. Others would come from strife-torn areas of Africa. The White House had previously announced it intended to take in 10,000 additional Syrian refugees over the next year.

Asked why the U.S. couldn't take more, Kerry cited post-Sept. 11 screening requirements and a lack of money made available by Congress.

[Malcolm]

And in Sweden, there is very little racism.

The most explicitly anti-gay, anti-semitic person I ever met in my life, outside of Americans I have met, was a woman from Sweden. Really, I was very surprised. I think xenophobia runs deeper among Europeans than many people realize.

[Norwegian]

And in Sweden, there is very little racism.

The most explicitly anti-gay, anti-semitic person I ever met in my life, outside of Americans I have met, was a woman from Sweden. Really, I was very surprised. I think xenophobia runs deeper among Europeans than many people realize.

Yes. I'm quite surprised Dan74 suggested this. Sweden has a lot of problems with racism and xenophobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Sweden

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/16/how ... d-largest/

[Malcolm]

And in Sweden, there is very little racism.

The most explicitly anti-gay, anti-semitic person I ever met in my life, outside of Americans I have met, was a woman from Sweden. Really, I was very surprised. I think xenophobia runs deeper among Europeans than many people realize.

Yes. I'm quite surprised Dan74 suggested this. Sweden has a lot of problems with racism and xenophobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Sweden

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/16/how ... d-largest/

Anyway, I think that we can all agree that we ought to do something to help the 20 million refugees in the world today.

[Norwegian]

Anyway, I think that we can all agree that we ought to do something to help the 20 million refugees in the world today.

Definitely agreed.

[AlexanderS]

And in Sweden, there is very little racism.

The most explicitly anti-gay, anti-semitic person I ever met in my life, outside of Americans I have met, was a woman from Sweden. Really, I was very surprised. I think xenophobia runs deeper among Europeans than many people realize.

Yes. I'm quite surprised Dan74 suggested this. Sweden has a lot of problems with racism and xenophobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Sweden

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/16/how ... d-largest/

I think racism and tensions between the natives and immigrants is mostly swepped under the carpet in Sweden since they have most politically correct politicians in world.

[AlexanderS]

It's cases like this and a overrepresentation in crime by muslim immigrants that makes me hesitant to want my country to take in a massive amount of refugees like sweden.. However Im also aware that this exposes my lack of equanimity and pure peception as a practioner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Stockholm_riots

[Dan74]

The most explicitly anti-gay, anti-semitic person I ever met in my life, outside of Americans I have met, was a woman from Sweden. Really, I was very surprised. I think xenophobia runs deeper among Europeans than many people realize.

Yes. I'm quite surprised Dan74 suggested this. Sweden has a lot of problems with racism and xenophobia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Sweden

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/16/how ... d-largest/

I think racism and tensions between the natives and immigrants is mostly swepped under the carpet in Sweden since they have most politically correct politicians in world.

Yes, I think this is what I was basing my statement about Sweden on, but it is not always true that absence of racist politicians implies a non-racist populace! Our politicians manage to capitalise on the undercurrent of prejudice quite effectively but not so in Sweden, it appears. So I was wrong.

And yes, extending a helping hand isn't optional though there are serious problems embedded in that as well. We must deal with both the best we can.

_/|\_

[kirtu]

Anyway, I think that we can all agree that we ought to do something to help the 20 million refugees in the world today.

Definitely agreed.

Although the UN Refugee Agency is still listing only 14 M people falling under their auspices, they are also reporting that 59.5 M people are displaced, refugees or seeking asylum at the end of 2014. At 1 in 122 people worldwide, we are approaching 1% of the planet's population as a refugee in some form.

Worldwide displacement hits all-time high as war and persecution increase

... and Vox's somewhat dated analysis of the refugee crisis published on 5 September, 2015, mostly as it pertains to Europe and the main driver of the crisis, the civil war in Syria. Vox does in fact cite 19 M refugees but they do not indicate their source: Vox: Europe's refugee crisis, explained

Kirt

[Jesse]

It's really sad when we demonize people for pretty much no reason. "There could be terrorists with them, there going to destroy our economy, they are all rapists and badly behaved".. etc, where do people get this stuff, really? What is so scary about a bunch of people fleeing violence?

[treehuggingoctopus]

Fear is a tremendously powerful emotion. Once we are in its sway, reason goes to sleep, and monsters wake up.

[Ayu]

Fear is a tremendously powerful emotion. Once we are in its sway, reason goes to sleep, and monsters wake up.

Right. The problem is, people do not detect this emotion as fear often. And consequently they think they act rationally but they don't.

[AlexanderS]

To be honest it is not always irrational fear. There is now smoke without a fire etc.. Recently a woman and her son were murdered in a Ikea store in Sweden. The woman was beheaded by two men shouting "allah akbar". Both the men were asylum seekers from Eritrea.. incidents like these definitely feed into fear even though they aren't the norm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -IKEA.html

In my country, refugees and immigrants from Somalia have intergrated terribly. In my opinion it's not surprising that people who come from frak up parts of the world have a greater disposition to frak up themselves.