To remove all objectsLastLegend wrote:If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?avisitor wrote: I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.
But, everyone is different.
Am awareness itself meditation
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
- LastLegend
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Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Also to let that goLastLegend wrote:That itself is an object.
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
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- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.avisitor wrote:To remove all objects
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Why not?Sherab Dorje wrote:You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.avisitor wrote:To remove all objects
If others can awaken then ignorance can be let go
My faith in the Buddha's truth ... is that it can be done.
Why do you wish to destroy my faith??
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Where did the Buddha teach meditation as the removal of objects? I mean, if you are saying that I am destroying your faith in the Buddhas truth then please show me the (specific) truth that I am destroying.
When one has ignorance they have dualistic view. When there is dualistic view there is a subject in relation to an object. As long as dualistic view remains then there will be objects.
When one has ignorance they have dualistic view. When there is dualistic view there is a subject in relation to an object. As long as dualistic view remains then there will be objects.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
I didn't say the Buddha's truth was the removal of objectsSherab Dorje wrote:Where did the Buddha teach meditation as the removal of objects? I mean, if you are saying that I am destroying your faith in the Buddhas truth then please show me the (specific) truth that I am destroying.
When one has ignorance they have dualistic view. When there is dualistic view there is a subject in relation to an object. As long as dualistic view remains then there will be objects.
Nor did I say that meditation was to remove objects.
I said I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.
LastLegend said that was an object too.
I wish to let that go too.
Then you say I can't as long as I have ignorance.
The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??
Edit: Now remember to watch your words or my reaction is your fault
Also, why do you wish to teach me about ignorance and dualistic views??
May I ask who your teacher was and what credential you have??
See, everything isn't clear when one has to use words to communicate.
Sorry for my rant.
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Sorry, yes, you are quite right I missed the "I believe there is no object to attain in meditation. But, everyone is different." on the previous page. Sorry!avisitor wrote:I didn't say the Buddha's truth was the removal of objects
Nor did I say that meditation was to remove objects.
I said I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.
This still stands as true.Then you say I can't as long as I have ignorance.
How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??
This is a Mahayana and Vajrayana forum, thus more emphasis is laid on the second and third turnings.
I don't have one teacher, I have many, most of them in the Karma Kagyu tradition.May I ask who your teacher was and what credential you have??
My credentials?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
That statement can only come from understanding the point that life is a delusionSherab Dorje wrote:How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??
And, in the context of seeing Buddha nature as a comparison.
Meaning the view of a person speaking such wisdoms is that of one with their minds eye opened.
You do have an impressive arsenal of information. And, you seem to be well versed in the ways of the Dharma.
But, talking to me that way means you are trying to make yourself out to be better than me.
Are you still trying to teach me??
- Vajrasvapna
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Re: Am awareness itself meditation
There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.LastLegend wrote:If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.
- LastLegend
- Posts: 5408
- Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.Vajrasvapna wrote:There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.LastLegend wrote:If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.LastLegend wrote:Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.Vajrasvapna wrote:There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.LastLegend wrote:If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
Are you still trying to teach? What are your qualifications? You see, the razor cuts both ways.avisitor wrote:Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
I did not say that.avisitor wrote:Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.
avisitor wrote:Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.
I was not the one who was so critical of the OP saying he was trying to teach.Sherab Dorje wrote:Are you still trying to teach? What are your qualifications? You see, the razor cuts both ways.
And if you read my post then you will see that it starts first as a general statement followed by what relates to me.
There is no teaching here. I do not look down upon others nor do I present an arsenal of information on the Dharma.
I do not try to teach/correct anyone as you did with me.
Sherab Dorje wrote:You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.avisitor wrote:To remove all objects
My qualifications? Only what I have experienced myself and the insights I receive while practicing meditation.Sherab Dorje wrote:"How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?"
Otherwise it is just repeating what is basically already taught and known about the Buddha's teachings.
So it changes nothing.
I apologize for my razor. But, I know that if the OP didn't say what he said then there was no way of knowing his understanding was ...
And you see here, I can't even be a bit negative or I get a warning or banned.
As a moderator here, I guess it is your job to be stringent and make warnings and corrections.
You have done an excellent job.
- Vajrasvapna
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- Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 1:45 pm
Re: Am awareness itself meditation
You're right, better to go slowly and strive to accomplish shamatha meditation first.LastLegend wrote:Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.Vajrasvapna wrote:There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.LastLegend wrote:If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.