Am awareness itself meditation

[avisitor]

I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.
But, everyone is different.

If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?

To remove all objects

[LastLegend]

That itself is an object.

[avisitor]

That itself is an object.

Also to let that go

[LastLegend]

Might be possible.

[Grigoris]

To remove all objects

You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.

[avisitor]

To remove all objects

You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.

Why not?
If others can awaken then ignorance can be let go
My faith in the Buddha's truth ... is that it can be done.
Why do you wish to destroy my faith??

[Grigoris]

Where did the Buddha teach meditation as the removal of objects? I mean, if you are saying that I am destroying your faith in the Buddhas truth then please show me the (specific) truth that I am destroying.

When one has ignorance they have dualistic view. When there is dualistic view there is a subject in relation to an object. As long as dualistic view remains then there will be objects.

[avisitor]

Where did the Buddha teach meditation as the removal of objects? I mean, if you are saying that I am destroying your faith in the Buddhas truth then please show me the (specific) truth that I am destroying.

When one has ignorance they have dualistic view. When there is dualistic view there is a subject in relation to an object. As long as dualistic view remains then there will be objects.

I didn't say the Buddha's truth was the removal of objects
Nor did I say that meditation was to remove objects.
I said I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.
LastLegend said that was an object too.
I wish to let that go too.
Then you say I can't as long as I have ignorance.
The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??



Edit: Now remember to watch your words or my reaction is your fault
Also, why do you wish to teach me about ignorance and dualistic views??
May I ask who your teacher was and what credential you have??
See, everything isn't clear when one has to use words to communicate.
Sorry for my rant.

[Grigoris]

I didn't say the Buddha's truth was the removal of objects
Nor did I say that meditation was to remove objects.
I said I believe there is no object to attain in meditation.

Sorry, yes, you are quite right I missed the "I believe there is no object to attain in meditation. But, everyone is different." on the previous page. Sorry!

Then you say I can't as long as I have ignorance.

This still stands as true.

The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??

How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?

This is a Mahayana and Vajrayana forum, thus more emphasis is laid on the second and third turnings.

May I ask who your teacher was and what credential you have??

I don't have one teacher, I have many, most of them in the Karma Kagyu tradition.

My credentials?

[avisitor]

The four noble truths ... fourth one .. it says there is a path to end suffering.
To end suffering, one must rid oneself of the three ... greed, hatred, ignorance
I believe or have faith in such things are possible.
Why then do you wish to tell me that it can't be done and destroy my faith??

How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?

That statement can only come from understanding the point that life is a delusion
And, in the context of seeing Buddha nature as a comparison.
Meaning the view of a person speaking such wisdoms is that of one with their minds eye opened.
You do have an impressive arsenal of information. And, you seem to be well versed in the ways of the Dharma.
But, talking to me that way means you are trying to make yourself out to be better than me.
Are you still trying to teach me??

[Vajrasvapna]

If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?

There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.

[LastLegend]

If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?

There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.

Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.

[avisitor]

If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?

There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.

Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.

Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.

[Grigoris]

Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.

Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.

Are you still trying to teach? What are your qualifications? You see, the razor cuts both ways.

[avisitor]

Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.

I did not say that.

Yes, most people require some sort of motivation to make one practice.
But, if one starts to love the practice then the practice itself becomes the motivation to practice.
Then, there is nothing to achieve, nothing to attain, nothing to remove
Why meditate? Because this has become like chopping wood and carrying water.
It gives me something like what food does for my body.
So, eat food ... practice meditation
It is just what is necessary in my life.

Are you still trying to teach? What are your qualifications? You see, the razor cuts both ways.

I was not the one who was so critical of the OP saying he was trying to teach.
And if you read my post then you will see that it starts first as a general statement followed by what relates to me.
There is no teaching here. I do not look down upon others nor do I present an arsenal of information on the Dharma.
I do not try to teach/correct anyone as you did with me.

To remove all objects

You can't remove all objects. As long as there is ignorance, there are objects.

"How can you rid yourself of something that does not actually exist?"

My qualifications? Only what I have experienced myself and the insights I receive while practicing meditation.
Otherwise it is just repeating what is basically already taught and known about the Buddha's teachings.
So it changes nothing.

I apologize for my razor. But, I know that if the OP didn't say what he said then there was no way of knowing his understanding was ...
And you see here, I can't even be a bit negative or I get a warning or banned.
As a moderator here, I guess it is your job to be stringent and make warnings and corrections.
You have done an excellent job.

[Vajrasvapna]

If there is no object to attain, then why meditate?

There is nothing to achieve, because our true nature was always Buddha nature. Moreover, because of the many negative actions, motivated by attachment and the afflictive emotions, we need to practice meditation to realize our nature.

Good thought. But it's a different story when we practice.

You're right, better to go slowly and strive to accomplish shamatha meditation first.