Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby Grigoris » Sun May 04, 2014 11:09 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Mon May 05, 2014 7:31 am


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 06, 2014 5:38 pm


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Re: Scotland becomes 17th country to approve same-sex marria

Postby LynyrdSkynyrd » Tue May 06, 2014 6:53 pm


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Tue May 06, 2014 9:32 pm

@Dan74 - It's probably true that power relations and economics play more of a role in conflict resolution than idealism. One of the reasons, in my opinion, Israel's government is unlikely to take the steps needed for real peace (basically, uprooting most West Bank settlements) is because the costs of continuing their occupation are relatively low compared to the costs of ending it. (And many of its leaders probably correctly believe real peace is a political impossiblity anyway because of the huge number of extremists among both peoples who only want violence.) From a cold economic perspective, how great would the benefits of a peace treaty with the Palestinians be to Israel? They'd still have most of the same regional enemies, and a bit more goodwill from Western leftists and moderates isn't really that financially valuable a commodity.

@LynyrdSkynyrd - I think a lot of Jews react negatively to criticism of Zionism and Zionists because such too often sounds like an attempt to divide "good Jews" from "bad Jews"; I suppose the best analogy I can give is that its like hearing, say, Rush Limbaugh hurl crude, obviously racially charged invective at Black politicians and intellectuals and then praise Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas to the skies as "uncommonly astute thinkers." Obviously, I don't think criticism of Israel is necessarily motivated by bigotry, but there are some really bigoted people out there who criticize Israel with barely disguised hatred for all things Jewish.

To the extent that my opinion matters - i.e., very little - I suppose I am a Zionist insofar as I have no problems with a Jewish state in the Middle East, so long as Israel's settlement program ends and the Palestinians receive full self-determination.

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 07, 2014 3:33 am

Zionism itself is a thorny issue and one I am still debating with my current office mate. While it made a lot more sense in the aftermath of the Holocaust, now I really wonder how one can justify promoting an identity of a state that is so limited...

PS The Hebrew Uni professor freely admits that his views are in minority among academics in Israel, most of them being on the left of the spectrum, much like academics elsewhere.

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Wed May 07, 2014 4:05 am


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby greentara » Wed May 07, 2014 4:21 am

Its hard to make any real distinction between the myriad causes. The Uighurs (Muslims) in China, the Tibetans plight after the Chinese invasion, the trials and tribulations of the Palestinians etc etc So much injustice where ever you look.... but for whatever reason Israel rightly or wrongly seems to hog the lions share of attention. Maybe its just that they don't have Chinas economic clout!

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Wed May 07, 2014 4:32 am


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby DGA » Wed May 07, 2014 3:21 pm


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Wed May 07, 2014 6:12 pm


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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby rory » Thu May 08, 2014 4:32 am

Thanks for coming into the discussion M.G. I agree with you wholeheartedly....I too would love to see 2 states, no war, no camps, no suicide bombing etc but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
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Re: Scotland becomes 17th country to approve same-sex marria

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun May 11, 2014 7:40 pm

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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun May 11, 2014 9:58 pm

Every time there has been peace talks they have always failed. Israel is willing to give up land for peace. The Palestinians are willing to take a small piece of land for their own for peace. The sticking point has always been and always will be: Jerusalem. Neither side is willing to give in. Both sides believe Jerusalem is their capitol. Neither side wants it divided.

The only solution is for the UN and perhaps the allies to make the Jerusalem - Bethlehem - Ramallah greater urban metropolitan area an international zone with each holy site administered by the religion that the site belongs to; for example Holy Sepulcher to the Christians, Al-aqsa mosque to the Muslims, Western (Wailing) Wall to the Jews.

The UN Partition plan back in 1947 called for something like this, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs did not, Civil war broke out and the Jews eventually won the war and got it all and then in subsequent years did not want to give the Palestinians anything, blaming them for not accepting the Partition to begin with; but enough with the blame already; it is almost 100 years ago, it is time for both sides to just accept that and end the violence.
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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Sun May 11, 2014 10:10 pm


KonchokZoepa
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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon May 12, 2014 12:19 pm

im not interested in reading this thread for I'm not really interested in having conversation about this topic with people who don't share the same channels of knowledge both in religious and in our worldly sense on this topic, but anyway i want to share a video about what orthodox jews in america and actually all over the world think about the secular jews who constitute the leaders of Israel. as this video says it is actually against law of Judaism for jews to govern over the holy land before their Messiah appears. well I could start ranting about this but I'm not going to… anyway check that video out.. :smile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

M.G.
Posts: 410
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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Mon May 12, 2014 1:21 pm


KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon May 12, 2014 8:33 pm

i will not even start this conversation because i will be banned from this forum because people will say I'm an anti-Semite due to my views about Zionists.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

M.G.
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:56 am

Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby M.G. » Mon May 12, 2014 10:06 pm

Last edited by M.G. on Mon May 12, 2014 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KonchokZoepa
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Re: Israel, Palestine, Antisemitism

Postby KonchokZoepa » Mon May 12, 2014 10:28 pm

ahuh, thats why sometimes its better not to participate.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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